I absolutely love this one.
In the past, I’ve listed these tactics Republicans (or any
other liars) use during a debate to push their factless, biased, agendas: Ignore facts and
switch to a different topic or deny facts and continue repeating things that
were made up or ignore facts and never comment again. Some other debate tactics
are to get personal and name-call, or proclaim that you are doing what they’re actually doing (like, after they lie and you point out the lie, they say ‘You’re
lying!’), or say a whole bunch of things that have nothing to do with the topic
in an attempt to obfuscate. All of these are the tactics of people who are not
working from facts and instead rely on making things up. Eventually, when you
run out of lies, you have to figure out how to evade or deflect.
This fucking twit is the mother lode. He becomes unhinged
pretty quickly.
This doesn’t really need a setup. It’s pretty
self-explanatory.
The names have been changed to protect the innocent and the
guilty – and all the shady characters in between. Normally, I would correct the
spelling, but in this case it lends to the authenticity and production quality
of this episode.
Enjoy…
Jan
I...I...I...There are no words in my brain or heart for
this...while I'm "happy", for lack of a better word, that a life was
spared, it sickens, again for lack of a better word, me that this wasn't done
for Troy Davis. Perhaps my hope of Troy being the last person murdered by
execution is coming to pass.
Bill Mancuso
Samuel David Crowe, white, proved beyond a reasonable doubt
of armed robbery and murder - shot store manager three times with a pistol,
beat him with a crowbar and a pot of paint, pleaded guilty - commuted.
Troy Davis, black, no evidence, no DNA, 9 conflicting
witness stories, 7 recanted, alleging police coercion - executed.
Hmm. If only I could figure out what the deciding factors
were.
Donald
Jan - I don't understand why the same people who will fight
to spare the lives of convicted criminals in the same breath will also fight
for a women's right to have an abortion... I don't know how you stand on that
issue but from my experience it either for one or the other. Personally I have
no problem with the death penalty if a person commits a awful crime like taking
the life of another then they should die by the same sword yet a baby's only
crime is having a mother that doesn't want them. Although I can see why it may
be necessary in cases or rape incest. But I cannot feel bad for a man that was
put to death for brutally killing another. If I had my way I would bring back the
gallows so every thug would think twice about committing a crime.
Bill Mancuso
You don't see the hypocrisy in what you said, do you,
Donald?
Jan
Well, Donald, luckily you won't get your way. As I believe
we evolved past this thought process. Currently we, as a country, share the
same mentality regarding the death penalty as N. Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iraq,
Iran and several 3rd world countries. Not exactly the company I'd like to keep.
It’s not about feeling bad, it’s about murdering a murderer to stop murder.
Huh? And for the record, the death penalty has obviously NOT deterred the
crimes that would be punishable by the death penalty. And if you can't
understand the difference between this and abortion, there is no use explaining
it. I do however find it interesting that you think it might be ok to terminate
an unwanted pregnancy if the situation calls for it. But, as I've told my
sister-in-law, who is very religious, I will forever defend your right to
CHOOSE your own thoughts and beliefs and your right to voice them. As long at
they don't involve the usual suspects of "evil" and wrong-doing.
Oh and in the Troy Davis case, he truly MAY have been
innocent. He even told the family to keep looking for the real killer of
Officer McPhail.
Donald
The death penalty doesn't work because everyone knows if you
get the death penalty it could take 20 years. Hence what I said about the
gallows... IIf
Mr Mancuso I love how it's a race issue... White guys spared
and the black guy dies... Give me a beak
Jan
Read it and *don't* weep, Donald. It's white blindness to think
it ain't so. The gallows. Yes, a crowd gathering to watch people hang to their
death. How romantic. How… evolved of you. I suppose we women should stay home,
barefoot and pregnant, taking beatings from our husbands if we step out of
line. Or maybe our children should be hit every time they do something wrong
and be seen and not heard. Perhaps the "black folk" should still be
slaves? Witch-hunt anyone? Yeah! I heard
she was a witch. Let's burn her at the stake! I think you might be more
comfortable in perhaps, Iraq or Afghanistan, where they think like you. I
believe they finally stopped doing the gallows, by the way, because of the
number of people who were actually innocent and because of how barbaric it was.
I should be frightened that a mentality like yours still exists. But I'm not.
Because lucky for me, there are more like me. People who have evolved
spiritually, intelligently. People who know that murdering someone to teach
that you shouldn't murder someone is just, well...not the way to go, Donald.
And yes, taking 20 years, as it should when deciding the fate of a life. All
options must and need to be exhausted before state sanctioned murder can take
place. Oh, that is if they pass the physical they have to take before their
regularly scheduled murder to make sure they are healthy enough to kill. I will
hope that Troy Davis' murder will be the last state approved, pre-meditated
murder allowed in this country. I'm sure that will disappoint you but it brings
a bit of peace to me.
Bill Mancuso
So, Donald, you see neither the hypocrisy nor the racism in
your statements, then?
Donald
Jan - so now that I believe in the death penalty that means
I am a Racist, woman beating, child abuser ? typical left wing deffence... no
point in trying to argue.
Bill - don't you see the stupidity in your post?
How much time is given in deciding the fate of a child
before it's head is crushed and the brain is sucked down a sink all because the
Childs mother made a error in judgment . Just curious? Call me what you like but
I have no problem executing a murderer or child abuser if they are convicted in
a court of law... I also suppose you are against peoples right to bare arms?
Bill Mancuso
Not at all. I'm wearing short sleeves right now.
So, you're into premeditated revenge killing like a good
Christian, I see.
And I'll take it as a 'no' about noticing the racism &
hypocrisy in your statements.
Jan
Donald, I find it interesting that you are against abortion but for the death penalty. Just kill them later, I guess.
Especially since the majority of killers, criminals and the like come from
homes where they were raised by single moms who are working their ass off
because daddy left and all they can do is keep a roof over their heads. Or they
too are drug addicts and on welfare, which I'm sure you also hate.
I don't debate abortion with, first, a guy and, second, I don't debate it as I will NEVER decide what is
right for the life of the mother or the cells in her womb (I have a kid by the
way. Who I love more than anything on this planet. But I have the luxury of
doing that because she was wanted and didn't "ruin my life".) I can't
even imagine what it must be like for someone who kept a child because of the
abortion/religious issue and hates them. Child abuse, anyone?
I too have bare arms right now, Bill :-). But no Donald, I
do think we have a right to bear arms. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I do believe, sadly, that’s a "right"
(God it seems so insane to compare a "right" to have a gun with a
"right" to vote or have freedom of speech or a "right" to
choose). I don't have guns as I have a child but I have dogs that will rip your
throat out instead :-)
See, Donald...I don't just follow Republican and Democratic
dogma on issues. I actually think for myself, as rationally and intelligently
as possible have my very own thoughts and opinions.
Donald
I love how you said that your lucky you child was wanted and
didn't ruin your life ... When are people going to be held responsible for
their actions. How about if you can't feed them don't breed them? And as fir
right to bear arms . Armed society
is a peaceful society... Any thug would think twice about breaking in to my
house because I also have 3 children whom I love more than anything and would
stop at nothing to protect them and my wife . Beside how many crimes are
committed by lawful citizens? What the left tries to do is take away our rights
to defend ourselves so the criminal are the only ones who will have guns...
Cause we all know that Jimmy dirtbag doesn't follow gun laws!!! Forgive me if
my autocorrect changes they spelling of my words but then what you you use to
make yourself feel superior
See if you can figure out how autocorrect incorrectly
spells words – nevermind words out of context or incorrect usage – just spelled
wrong. Oh, and the floating periods, too.
And let me get this straight ... It's not ok to kill a
convicted killer, murderer, rapist... But it is ok kill a baby if the mom is
loose, or it's ok to kill a man if he breaks into your house by having your
dogs rip his throat out? !!!! Ok now I know hypocrisy! Ty Jan for the lesson
Jan
Obviously, I disagree. I'm pretty sure the left doesn't want
criminals running around with guns, Donald. Actually, I'm positive on that one.
Really? C'mon, man. Think! Think for yourself! And yeah, I feel the same about
the ‘can't feed em’ thing. Which is exactly why every person should have a
right to CHOOSE. Even under the best circumstance, "accidents"
happen. Some people are able to work through it, others are not. I would never
presume to know what is going on in someone else's life when it comes to taking
care of or bringing another life into this world. It’s wonderful that you think
its because the WOMAN must be loose. Wow, Donald. Wow.
And you're welcome :-). Just please, try and THINK, with
compassion and peace. If we all did that, I think there'd be a lot less for us
all, on both sides, to debate :-)
Donald
Jan I enjoy a good debate it's the best way to learn both
sides... I would debate your friend Bill but anyone who calls someone a racist
without really understanding what was said is just plain stupid and simple and
not worth my time.. Just what was it that said that makes me a racist? And if
you read my comment you would see that yes I can understand where abortion may
be needed. I am against it being used for convenience because the baby is a
life not just tissue. Hence the loose comment.
Darren
over 20 years and endless money thrown at this case.
Countless appeals and all came to a guilty verdict.... every time. and from
what i have read.... a majority black jury. Since when was this guy a saint?
Darren missed the point, but at least he tried to keep it
on topic – unlike Donald. Who instantly brought up a woman’s health issue – the
right to an abortion – as an
alternate viewpoint to pre-meditated, state-sanctioned revenge murder that does
nothing to deter criminals from murdering.
Jan
Darren...not saying he's a saint. It’s not about being a
saint. It’s not about whether I like him or not. I think if you read this
extremely brief info about the Troy Davis case, you might understand the problems with it. Eyewitness
testimony is what basically got him arrested and charged. The
"eyewitnesses" recanted their testimony and others said it was
actually the guy who went in to the police station and said that Davis was the
one who did it! Eyewitness testimony is literally all they had. How it’s ok to
give someone the death penalty based on eyewitness testimony but not take it
away based on the same eyewitness testimony is an absolute travesty and proof
that our judicial system needs re-vamping. The appeals process is to make sure
that all procedures were properly followed, not necessarily weigh the evidence.
However, in this case, they refused to take the new testimony and that there
was no match on the shell casings and that fact that the guy who turned in
Davis is actually the one who shot both men. It seriously is pretty repulsive.
This is why his supporters and those that believe this kind of thing is pretty
fucking scary say, "I Am Troy Davis" because it could happen to any
of us. Mistaken identity combined with a murdered cop, combined with no money
for a real defense attorney = executed. Read the article I posted that started
this whole thing and read the wiki info, I hope you'll be equally disgusted.
In other words...there was just too much doubt in this one
to put a man to death without another trial. Jurors that originally convicted
Davis have come forward and even testified that if they knew then, what they
know now, they never would have convicted him.
Michelle
Donald, can I ask why you characterize women who get
abortions as loose or making an error in judgment? Let's say we agree a woman
shouldn't be allowed to kill her unborn child just because she doesn't feel
like being a mom. Should we as a society want her to raise that child if she's
so irresponsible, that she can't even use birth control? And let's say we agree
she shouldn't raise that child. Are you volunteering to take care of the baby?
What is your solution? You can't possibly, possibly be able to answer the
question of "what if it was you". But there is no doubt that if men
were capable of getting pregnant, this wouldn't even be a conversation.
Abortion would be 'his right'.
I find his response to be a masterful work of art:
Donald
Michelle - before all you femi-nazi's get your panties in a
bunch, let me explain my position one more time and I will try and do it so you
will understand... if you read my first post I said that I understand there may
be a need for abortion but only in extreme cases... i.e rape... but what
disgusts me is lazy, irresponsible woman (yes and men too) who have a good time
and ooops got knock up! oh well I will just get rid of it... Those women are
loose and yes they should not be able to raise the child but there are plenty
of good families that cannot have a child and would adopt them... any hospital
will take a child no questions asked so why do these babies have to die? yet
God forbid the state executes a thug that was convicted by his peers and sentenced
to death... nooo those people are monsters!!!! Spare me the liberal horse
S%$t... and maybe if this Govt would stop spending money on welfare and SSI for
illegals then we would have plenty to provide for them...
Welfare and social security for illegals?
Jan
And for the record...Michelle is a mom too :-).
I would write more but as I said, I just don't debate
abortion with men. No offence :-).
Donald
I have nothing against Michelle and God bless her and you
for being a mom!
Like I said I love to debate!!!
Lets talk about something less controversial like Global
warming and the hoax it truly is... lol
That moronic statement is actually going to be a major
part of an upcoming blogpost. Stay tuned, true-believers…
I am a master-debater!!!... wait that doesn't sound good...
Jan
No...no it doesn't. Sounds too private :-)
Global warming, eh...Well, that one, I'm honestly not up to
speed. For me, I'm a vegan and I live as eco-friendly as I possibly can. I'm
all for solar, hybrids, reducing if not eliminating our need and dependency on
fossil fuels, and I'm as conservative as I can be with water. I say ‘as can be’
because well, I'm a girl and sometimes, well, I take long hot showers and baths
:-). I don't think you should have to believe in Global Warming to be kind to
the only planet we have to live on! Whether there is global warming caused by
us or the plain ole cycle of the planet doesn't matter to me in terms of the
reason. There shouldn't need to be a reason to want to make this planet and all
on it as healthy as possible. For the life of me, I just don't understand why
people need "reasons" to do the right thing! That's all I got on this
one :-)
Bill Mancuso
Apparently, Donald, when you make remarks solely based upon
race, you're not a racist. When you demand standards apply to others but not
you, that's not hypocrisy. When someone disagrees with you, they are stupid.
When someone asks you completely fair and honest questions that you don't have
answers to, they're a femi-nazi.
And when you can't come up with any answers based on logic
or facts, you change the topic.
You, like all who have no idea about the myriad difficult,
personal, emotional and complex reasons why a woman would choose this
procedure, do not care about said reasons and instead choose to blindly repeat
what religious dogma tells you because that is far easier than actually trying
to learn something new.
And so it is you seem to believe the only reason women seek
abortions is if they just don't feel like raising a child. Simple. Not
complicated. Ignorant. Wrong.
I have decided that you are a typical close-minded,
right-wing, religious lemming. You are incapable of independent thought and
resort to name-calling to cover the fact that Rush Limbaugh hasn't told you
what to say on the topic.
If you scroll up, you will notice I never called you a
racist or a hypocrite. I simply asked if you saw the racism and hypocrisy in
your statements, affording you the chance to reflect on what you said and
perhaps change or clarify the statement. You did neither. You called me stupid
and Michelle a femi-nazi.
And yes, I realize I did just call you several names in the
paragraph above the last, but they are all accurate, based on actual things you
said. I didn't just call you stupid because you disagreed with me.
And I see you also blindly follow the right-wing,
corporate-profit-protecting, anti-science stance on climate change. Bravo.
And you prove my point again by trying to change the topic
since you have no logical answers.
Remember that masterful work of art? This reply is worth
at least three times as much:
Donald
Did you say something Bill? lets put it this way When I see
dirt worshipping tree hugging idiot drive a Prius, I go home and set fire to a
tire just out of spite... lol
And if you re read my first post all I said about race was
"give me a break" on your comment about how whitey gets off but the
brother dies... You are the racist! Just like that a hole Al Sharpton only has
rallies to get a black guy free... Ever see that idiot activist rally any
support for a white man? Is he trying to free the innocent or just the black
guys? I myself will fight for any innocent man. But if they are guilty then pay
the piper they must!!! One more thing ..... When you act like an elitist
asshole trying to sound like an intellectual. All you are achieving is looking
like a douchebag. My guess is you have a boner for some girl your trying to
impress and you hope she is reading these posts .. Talk like a man! 10. Bucks
says you order from international male. Lol have fun with that! All I was doing
is having a debate. Idiot! Lol
Bill Mancuso
Thank you for proving everything I said.
Donald
Bill you haven't said anything!
Michelle
You've said plenty, Donald. Thanks for the highly
enlightened view on sex and pregnancy. I'm sure you'll be volunteering hours
down at that hospital to take in all the unwanted babies. Oh, and thank you for
so astutely labeling me, based solely on my post asking you questions about
your views. (Yes, I'm a Nazi. And I hate men. How did you know??) Sadly,
intelligent debate rarely happens anymore. Most people are just waiting for
their next turn to fire back. To PROVE themselves right. To insult the other. To
be clever. But almost never, to listen. The problems we are facing belong to
all of us. But go ahead, make enemies out of anyone with a differing opinion.
I'm sure that will fix everything.
Donald
Please read my first post And tell me what racist comment I
made? I was even called a hypocrite because i am for the death penalty and
against using abortion as a oops cleanup! And I bet I am not the first guy to
call you a Nazi. You are angry, toots! But I have no I'll will towards you have
a good day
********************
Apparently, this guy is also a misogynist. Error in
judgment? Women are just loose? Lazy, irresponsible women say, “Oops, got
knocked up, let me just get rid of it?” How dare a woman be able to decide what
to do with her own body! Femi-nazi? Toots? Other than a lowly female daring to ask logical questions to the superior males
motives, what would prompt calling her these things? And I didn’t see the anger
in her statements, either.
And what’s with all the exclamation points and ellipses? At
least he didn’t write in all caps.
And it’s nice to see he stuck with his guns on the belief
that women only get abortions because they’re “loose” and just feel like it.
“An oops clean up.” Fucking moron.
I’ve also noticed another curiosity beyond all the
ridiculous debate tactics employed. And it’s come from several other sparring
partners, too, not just this brainiac. They often say, “I love how…” and go on
to point out what they believe is false. Some sort of attempt at being
sarcastic, I suppose, but their brains all seem to operate in the same way,
ending with the same result. I love how they think they’re making a point.
And although he happily proclaimed his delight in having a
debate because it’s “the best way to learn both sides,” he obviously is not
interested in learning anything. Just in making everyone agree with him. Which,
to be fair, is what all Republicans and religious people think of as “debate.”
Agree with me or you’re stupid.
Toots? Shit. Have I time-slipped back into the 1940’s again?
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