Friday, September 30, 2011

Belligerent Obstinacy

I absolutely love this one.

In the past, I’ve listed these tactics Republicans (or any other liars) use during a debate to push their factless, biased, agendas: Ignore facts and switch to a different topic or deny facts and continue repeating things that were made up or ignore facts and never comment again. Some other debate tactics are to get personal and name-call, or proclaim that you are doing what they’re actually doing (like, after they lie and you point out the lie, they say ‘You’re lying!’), or say a whole bunch of things that have nothing to do with the topic in an attempt to obfuscate. All of these are the tactics of people who are not working from facts and instead rely on making things up. Eventually, when you run out of lies, you have to figure out how to evade or deflect.

This fucking twit is the mother lode. He becomes unhinged pretty quickly.

This doesn’t really need a setup. It’s pretty self-explanatory.

The names have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty – and all the shady characters in between. Normally, I would correct the spelling, but in this case it lends to the authenticity and production quality of this episode.


I...I...I...There are no words in my brain or heart for this...while I'm "happy", for lack of a better word, that a life was spared, it sickens, again for lack of a better word, me that this wasn't done for Troy Davis. Perhaps my hope of Troy being the last person murdered by execution is coming to pass.

Bill Mancuso
Samuel David Crowe, white, proved beyond a reasonable doubt of armed robbery and murder - shot store manager three times with a pistol, beat him with a crowbar and a pot of paint, pleaded guilty - commuted.

Troy Davis, black, no evidence, no DNA, 9 conflicting witness stories, 7 recanted, alleging police coercion - executed.

Hmm. If only I could figure out what the deciding factors were.

Jan - I don't understand why the same people who will fight to spare the lives of convicted criminals in the same breath will also fight for a women's right to have an abortion... I don't know how you stand on that issue but from my experience it either for one or the other. Personally I have no problem with the death penalty if a person commits a awful crime like taking the life of another then they should die by the same sword yet a baby's only crime is having a mother that doesn't want them. Although I can see why it may be necessary in cases or rape incest. But I cannot feel bad for a man that was put to death for brutally killing another. If I had my way I would bring back the gallows so every thug would think twice about committing a crime.

Bill Mancuso
You don't see the hypocrisy in what you said, do you, Donald?

Well, Donald, luckily you won't get your way. As I believe we evolved past this thought process. Currently we, as a country, share the same mentality regarding the death penalty as N. Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran and several 3rd world countries. Not exactly the company I'd like to keep. It’s not about feeling bad, it’s about murdering a murderer to stop murder. Huh? And for the record, the death penalty has obviously NOT deterred the crimes that would be punishable by the death penalty. And if you can't understand the difference between this and abortion, there is no use explaining it. I do however find it interesting that you think it might be ok to terminate an unwanted pregnancy if the situation calls for it. But, as I've told my sister-in-law, who is very religious, I will forever defend your right to CHOOSE your own thoughts and beliefs and your right to voice them. As long at they don't involve the usual suspects of "evil" and wrong-doing.

Oh and in the Troy Davis case, he truly MAY have been innocent. He even told the family to keep looking for the real killer of Officer McPhail.

The death penalty doesn't work because everyone knows if you get the death penalty it could take 20 years. Hence what I said about the gallows... IIf

Mr Mancuso I love how it's a race issue... White guys spared and the black guy dies... Give me a beak


Read it and *don't* weep, Donald. It's white blindness to think it ain't so. The gallows. Yes, a crowd gathering to watch people hang to their death. How romantic. How… evolved of you. I suppose we women should stay home, barefoot and pregnant, taking beatings from our husbands if we step out of line. Or maybe our children should be hit every time they do something wrong and be seen and not heard. Perhaps the "black folk" should still be slaves? Witch-hunt anyone? Yeah! I heard she was a witch. Let's burn her at the stake! I think you might be more comfortable in perhaps, Iraq or Afghanistan, where they think like you. I believe they finally stopped doing the gallows, by the way, because of the number of people who were actually innocent and because of how barbaric it was. I should be frightened that a mentality like yours still exists. But I'm not. Because lucky for me, there are more like me. People who have evolved spiritually, intelligently. People who know that murdering someone to teach that you shouldn't murder someone is just, well...not the way to go, Donald. And yes, taking 20 years, as it should when deciding the fate of a life. All options must and need to be exhausted before state sanctioned murder can take place. Oh, that is if they pass the physical they have to take before their regularly scheduled murder to make sure they are healthy enough to kill. I will hope that Troy Davis' murder will be the last state approved, pre-meditated murder allowed in this country. I'm sure that will disappoint you but it brings a bit of peace to me.

Bill Mancuso
So, Donald, you see neither the hypocrisy nor the racism in your statements, then?

Jan - so now that I believe in the death penalty that means I am a Racist, woman beating, child abuser ? typical left wing deffence... no point in trying to argue.

Bill - don't you see the stupidity in your post?

How much time is given in deciding the fate of a child before it's head is crushed and the brain is sucked down a sink all because the Childs mother made a error in judgment . Just curious? Call me what you like but I have no problem executing a murderer or child abuser if they are convicted in a court of law... I also suppose you are against peoples right to bare arms?

Bill Mancuso
Not at all. I'm wearing short sleeves right now.

So, you're into premeditated revenge killing like a good Christian, I see.
And I'll take it as a 'no' about noticing the racism & hypocrisy in your statements.
Donald, I find it interesting that you are against abortion but for the death penalty. Just kill them later, I guess. Especially since the majority of killers, criminals and the like come from homes where they were raised by single moms who are working their ass off because daddy left and all they can do is keep a roof over their heads. Or they too are drug addicts and on welfare, which I'm sure you also hate.
I don't debate abortion with, first, a guy and, second, I don't debate it as I will NEVER decide what is right for the life of the mother or the cells in her womb (I have a kid by the way. Who I love more than anything on this planet. But I have the luxury of doing that because she was wanted and didn't "ruin my life".) I can't even imagine what it must be like for someone who kept a child because of the abortion/religious issue and hates them. Child abuse, anyone?
I too have bare arms right now, Bill :-). But no Donald, I do think we have a right to bear arms. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I do believe, sadly, that’s a "right" (God it seems so insane to compare a "right" to have a gun with a "right" to vote or have freedom of speech or a "right" to choose). I don't have guns as I have a child but I have dogs that will rip your throat out instead :-)

See, Donald...I don't just follow Republican and Democratic dogma on issues. I actually think for myself, as rationally and intelligently as possible have my very own thoughts and opinions.
I love how you said that your lucky you child was wanted and didn't ruin your life ... When are people going to be held responsible for their actions. How about if you can't feed them don't breed them? And as fir right to bear arms  . Armed society is a peaceful society... Any thug would think twice about breaking in to my house because I also have 3 children whom I love more than anything and would stop at nothing to protect them and my wife . Beside how many crimes are committed by lawful citizens? What the left tries to do is take away our rights to defend ourselves so the criminal are the only ones who will have guns... Cause we all know that Jimmy dirtbag doesn't follow gun laws!!! Forgive me if my autocorrect changes they spelling of my words but then what you you use to make yourself feel superior

See if you can figure out how autocorrect incorrectly spells words – nevermind words out of context or incorrect usage – just spelled wrong. Oh, and the floating periods, too.

And let me get this straight ... It's not ok to kill a convicted killer, murderer, rapist... But it is ok kill a baby if the mom is loose, or it's ok to kill a man if he breaks into your house by having your dogs rip his throat out? !!!! Ok now I know hypocrisy! Ty Jan for the lesson
Obviously, I disagree. I'm pretty sure the left doesn't want criminals running around with guns, Donald. Actually, I'm positive on that one. Really? C'mon, man. Think! Think for yourself! And yeah, I feel the same about the ‘can't feed em’ thing. Which is exactly why every person should have a right to CHOOSE. Even under the best circumstance, "accidents" happen. Some people are able to work through it, others are not. I would never presume to know what is going on in someone else's life when it comes to taking care of or bringing another life into this world. It’s wonderful that you think its because the WOMAN must be loose. Wow, Donald. Wow.

And you're welcome :-). Just please, try and THINK, with compassion and peace. If we all did that, I think there'd be a lot less for us all, on both sides, to debate :-)
Jan I enjoy a good debate it's the best way to learn both sides... I would debate your friend Bill but anyone who calls someone a racist without really understanding what was said is just plain stupid and simple and not worth my time.. Just what was it that said that makes me a racist? And if you read my comment you would see that yes I can understand where abortion may be needed. I am against it being used for convenience because the baby is a life not just tissue. Hence the loose comment.
over 20 years and endless money thrown at this case. Countless appeals and all came to a guilty verdict.... every time. and from what i have read.... a majority black jury. Since when was this guy a saint?

Darren missed the point, but at least he tried to keep it on topic – unlike Donald. Who instantly brought up a woman’s health issue – the right to an abortion –  as an alternate viewpoint to pre-meditated, state-sanctioned revenge murder that does nothing to deter criminals from murdering.
Darren...not saying he's a saint. It’s not about being a saint. It’s not about whether I like him or not. I think if you read this extremely brief info about the Troy Davis case, you might understand the problems with it. Eyewitness testimony is what basically got him arrested and charged. The "eyewitnesses" recanted their testimony and others said it was actually the guy who went in to the police station and said that Davis was the one who did it! Eyewitness testimony is literally all they had. How it’s ok to give someone the death penalty based on eyewitness testimony but not take it away based on the same eyewitness testimony is an absolute travesty and proof that our judicial system needs re-vamping. The appeals process is to make sure that all procedures were properly followed, not necessarily weigh the evidence. However, in this case, they refused to take the new testimony and that there was no match on the shell casings and that fact that the guy who turned in Davis is actually the one who shot both men. It seriously is pretty repulsive. This is why his supporters and those that believe this kind of thing is pretty fucking scary say, "I Am Troy Davis" because it could happen to any of us. Mistaken identity combined with a murdered cop, combined with no money for a real defense attorney = executed. Read the article I posted that started this whole thing and read the wiki info, I hope you'll be equally disgusted.

In other words...there was just too much doubt in this one to put a man to death without another trial. Jurors that originally convicted Davis have come forward and even testified that if they knew then, what they know now, they never would have convicted him.
Donald, can I ask why you characterize women who get abortions as loose or making an error in judgment? Let's say we agree a woman shouldn't be allowed to kill her unborn child just because she doesn't feel like being a mom. Should we as a society want her to raise that child if she's so irresponsible, that she can't even use birth control? And let's say we agree she shouldn't raise that child. Are you volunteering to take care of the baby? What is your solution? You can't possibly, possibly be able to answer the question of "what if it was you". But there is no doubt that if men were capable of getting pregnant, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Abortion would be 'his right'.

I find his response to be a masterful work of art:

Michelle - before all you femi-nazi's get your panties in a bunch, let me explain my position one more time and I will try and do it so you will understand... if you read my first post I said that I understand there may be a need for abortion but only in extreme cases... i.e rape... but what disgusts me is lazy, irresponsible woman (yes and men too) who have a good time and ooops got knock up! oh well I will just get rid of it... Those women are loose and yes they should not be able to raise the child but there are plenty of good families that cannot have a child and would adopt them... any hospital will take a child no questions asked so why do these babies have to die? yet God forbid the state executes a thug that was convicted by his peers and sentenced to death... nooo those people are monsters!!!! Spare me the liberal horse S%$t... and maybe if this Govt would stop spending money on welfare and SSI for illegals then we would have plenty to provide for them...

Welfare and social security for illegals?
And for the record...Michelle is a mom too :-).

I would write more but as I said, I just don't debate abortion with men. No offence :-).
I have nothing against Michelle and God bless her and you for being a mom!

Like I said I love to debate!!!

Lets talk about something less controversial like Global warming and the hoax it truly is... lol

That moronic statement is actually going to be a major part of an upcoming blogpost. Stay tuned, true-believers…

I am a master-debater!!!... wait that doesn't sound good...
Jan it doesn't. Sounds too private :-)

Global warming, eh...Well, that one, I'm honestly not up to speed. For me, I'm a vegan and I live as eco-friendly as I possibly can. I'm all for solar, hybrids, reducing if not eliminating our need and dependency on fossil fuels, and I'm as conservative as I can be with water. I say ‘as can be’ because well, I'm a girl and sometimes, well, I take long hot showers and baths :-). I don't think you should have to believe in Global Warming to be kind to the only planet we have to live on! Whether there is global warming caused by us or the plain ole cycle of the planet doesn't matter to me in terms of the reason. There shouldn't need to be a reason to want to make this planet and all on it as healthy as possible. For the life of me, I just don't understand why people need "reasons" to do the right thing! That's all I got on this one :-)

Bill Mancuso
Apparently, Donald, when you make remarks solely based upon race, you're not a racist. When you demand standards apply to others but not you, that's not hypocrisy. When someone disagrees with you, they are stupid. When someone asks you completely fair and honest questions that you don't have answers to, they're a femi-nazi.

And when you can't come up with any answers based on logic or facts, you change the topic.

You, like all who have no idea about the myriad difficult, personal, emotional and complex reasons why a woman would choose this procedure, do not care about said reasons and instead choose to blindly repeat what religious dogma tells you because that is far easier than actually trying to learn something new.

And so it is you seem to believe the only reason women seek abortions is if they just don't feel like raising a child. Simple. Not complicated. Ignorant. Wrong.

I have decided that you are a typical close-minded, right-wing, religious lemming. You are incapable of independent thought and resort to name-calling to cover the fact that Rush Limbaugh hasn't told you what to say on the topic.

If you scroll up, you will notice I never called you a racist or a hypocrite. I simply asked if you saw the racism and hypocrisy in your statements, affording you the chance to reflect on what you said and perhaps change or clarify the statement. You did neither. You called me stupid and Michelle a femi-nazi.

And yes, I realize I did just call you several names in the paragraph above the last, but they are all accurate, based on actual things you said. I didn't just call you stupid because you disagreed with me.

And I see you also blindly follow the right-wing, corporate-profit-protecting, anti-science stance on climate change. Bravo.

And you prove my point again by trying to change the topic since you have no logical answers.

Remember that masterful work of art? This reply is worth at least three times as much:
Did you say something Bill? lets put it this way When I see dirt worshipping tree hugging idiot drive a Prius, I go home and set fire to a tire just out of spite... lol

And if you re read my first post all I said about race was "give me a break" on your comment about how whitey gets off but the brother dies... You are the racist! Just like that a hole Al Sharpton only has rallies to get a black guy free... Ever see that idiot activist rally any support for a white man? Is he trying to free the innocent or just the black guys? I myself will fight for any innocent man. But if they are guilty then pay the piper they must!!! One more thing ..... When you act like an elitist asshole trying to sound like an intellectual. All you are achieving is looking like a douchebag. My guess is you have a boner for some girl your trying to impress and you hope she is reading these posts .. Talk like a man! 10. Bucks says you order from international male. Lol have fun with that! All I was doing is having a debate. Idiot! Lol
Bill Mancuso
Thank you for proving everything I said.
Bill you haven't said anything!

You've said plenty, Donald. Thanks for the highly enlightened view on sex and pregnancy. I'm sure you'll be volunteering hours down at that hospital to take in all the unwanted babies. Oh, and thank you for so astutely labeling me, based solely on my post asking you questions about your views. (Yes, I'm a Nazi. And I hate men. How did you know??) Sadly, intelligent debate rarely happens anymore. Most people are just waiting for their next turn to fire back. To PROVE themselves right. To insult the other. To be clever. But almost never, to listen. The problems we are facing belong to all of us. But go ahead, make enemies out of anyone with a differing opinion. I'm sure that will fix everything.

Please read my first post And tell me what racist comment I made? I was even called a hypocrite because i am for the death penalty and against using abortion as a oops cleanup! And I bet I am not the first guy to call you a Nazi. You are angry, toots! But I have no I'll will towards you have a good day


Apparently, this guy is also a misogynist. Error in judgment? Women are just loose? Lazy, irresponsible women say, “Oops, got knocked up, let me just get rid of it?” How dare a woman be able to decide what to do with her own body! Femi-nazi? Toots? Other than a lowly female daring to ask logical questions to the superior males motives, what would prompt calling her these things? And I didn’t see the anger in her statements, either.

And what’s with all the exclamation points and ellipses? At least he didn’t write in all caps.

And it’s nice to see he stuck with his guns on the belief that women only get abortions because they’re “loose” and just feel like it. “An oops clean up.” Fucking moron.

I’ve also noticed another curiosity beyond all the ridiculous debate tactics employed. And it’s come from several other sparring partners, too, not just this brainiac. They often say, “I love how…” and go on to point out what they believe is false. Some sort of attempt at being sarcastic, I suppose, but their brains all seem to operate in the same way, ending with the same result. I love how they think they’re making a point.

And although he happily proclaimed his delight in having a debate because it’s “the best way to learn both sides,” he obviously is not interested in learning anything. Just in making everyone agree with him. Which, to be fair, is what all Republicans and religious people think of as “debate.” Agree with me or you’re stupid.

Toots? Shit. Have I time-slipped back into the 1940’s again?

No comments:

Post a Comment