This thread was originally posted on Facebook on May 29, 2010 and seems a little quaint compared to what’s going on in politics now, but it still makes sense. The clip from Bill Maher that started it all is irrelevant to the subsequent discussion, but it is relevant in and of itself. I suggest you watch it.
The names have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty – and all the shady characters in between. Normally, I would correct the spelling, but in this case it lends to the authenticity and production quality of this episode.
If you are sensitive to language, et. al. don't watch Bill Maher;)
New Rule for Politicians: Everything You Say Can and Will Be Used Against You in a Google Search or on You Tube
Yep Bill Maher is a trip, an idiot trip. I'm sure he thinks the bribe to the states for OBAMA CARE and his bribe to Sestake is just plain ole Chicage Ward politics.
Zachary, I'm a little fuzzy on the facts. Could you elaborate on what was Obama's bribe to the states for health care (modeled after Republican Mitt Romney's health care implemented in Massachusetts) and define the difference between the Sestak/Specter situation and what every single president since George Washington has done (yes, including Bush & Reagan) - especially since several lawyers have already said this is a non-issue? And what does any of this have to do with what Bill Maher said about everything being recorded so you shouldn't lie?
I suppose you don't remember the three millior to Lousina, the tax free to Nebraska forever for medicare. PBO is a Chicago Hood trying to run the country as he did in Chicago
Apologies, but I have no idea about 3 million to Louisiana nor have I ever heard of lifetime tax-free Medicare to Nebraska. Could you please let me know where to look this up? I have been fruitless in my research. Also, again, what do you say to the Sestak/Specter situation not actually being a bribe or of any relevance since all presidents have made similar moves and attorneys say it is not at all, in any way, shape or form illegal? And to the original point of everything being recorded, why the non sequitur response? And please don’t use form statements like “Chicago Hood” because it shows you’re not thinking for yourself but just repeating right-wing talking points.
Senators Landrieu of LA and Nelson of NE both got special deals in exchange for their (tepid) health care votes, search her by name w/health care and "Cornhusker Kickback" for him. Didn't do them any good, she's being challenged by left wing Dems in LA and he had to give up Kickback after NE Republicans decided they'd rather have his blood than the money.
Apparently Zachary is so shocked, SHOCKED, that politicians horse trade that he brings it up in unrelated discussions. Maybe because Republicans are so determined to smack Obama, none of them will deal with him for their votes. They put party first. Weird choice to me, since they give up getting anything good for their constituents and/or influencing legislation. Guess they're putting all their money on mid-terms, we'll see how that works for them.
Right, Mary Landrieu & Ben Nelson. Thanks for the info, Smitty. Yes, those two instances are so heinous, Republicans would NEVER do anything like that. Except all the times they do.
Yes, no matter what, they go against Obama - even if it's their own idea. They all act like 3rd graders at recess.
I made a mistake, it wasn't 3 million, it was 300 million. If you guys don't think buying votes is wrong, that's OK by me but any way you slice it it's bribery. Oh and I do love the way PBO has turned a 3 trillion debt into 13 trillion in a year and a half. Oh I made another mistake Dumb ole me I just realized that just because the number goes up doesn't mean you saved or created wealth. Much like PBO saved or created jobs. Happy Memorial Day and thank a Vet.
So you loved Clinton, Zachary? Because our debt was low when he was in office and started to skyrocket when W took over...let me pull the stats--it's hard to compete with what happened after that...
Just so I'm clear on your thought process, Zachary... It is OK when Republicans buy votes and create national debt and not OK when Democrats do it, right? Also, your numbers seem to be off again. You seem to be using Fox News "facts" by adding two different sets of numbers for your calculation, which incorrectly and intentionally makes Obama look bad. Public debt and government debt was used for Obama's sum but only government debt (which was actually 4.3t, not 3t after Clinton left) was used for Bush. The totals for both are 10.9t for Bush and 12.9t for Obama, which means Bush put us 7 trillion more into debt and Obama added 2. Somehow, in Republican math, 2 is greater than 7. Look these numbers up on treasurydirect.gov instead of just blindly believing any BS that supports your biased viewpoint. Yes, it has increased, but look at the colossal failure of the Bush administration Obama has to contend with. It took 8 years for Bush to double our national debt - just like Reagan. You think anyone can fix that in a little over 1 year? You need to spend $ to make $. And by the time Bush left office, the unemployment rate he created was the worst in 34 years. And Obama has to contend with that, too. There are still job losses, but they decrease as the months go on, not exponentially increase like they were under Bush. Obama isn't magic. Happy Memorial Day to you, too.
No a bribe is a brib for all and as far as I know against the law. In addition all ear marks are bribes. Ruth, I didn't care for Clinton as his Administration caused the Real Estate problem. Clinton at least at the end had a Republican Congress to keep him in check. Bush ended up with a Dem. congress and he didn't have the guts to Veto any spending bill. Now that it is total Dems, it's spend spend,borrow, borrow, borrow. Who do you think is going to pay it back. I have a suspision, VAT, and the Feds conficating all 401k's and IRA'S and putting them in the general fund. When GW left office unemployment was at a true 8%. Now it's 10% and if you add those that are no longer looking, it's more like 17. You can keep blaming Bush for everything if you believe that PBO can do no wrong. but we'll see.
You bet Bill.
Correction Zachary: that Republican congress you're so fond of joined with Clinton to set up the real estate problem through deregulation. Now we're all seeing the usual results of letting the market do what it feels like. Actually, those are also the usual results of Democrats losing their nerve and trying to act more like Republicans.
Bush turned the surplus he inherited into a gigantic deficit. He started two wars, kept their costs separate from the real budget, and then CUT TAXES! No one in US history has ever cut taxes during wartime. Of course we blame Bush! You don't have to be a fan of Obama (I'm undecided) to know that Bush and the Republicans damn sure got us into most of the mess we're in today. It's actually a bit embarrassing to see people so partisan they pretend that's not the case.
Yeah, Smitty, I'm a little undecided on Obama, too. It's not a question of his intelligence, I think he's a smart person, it's his fortitude. Imagine if he didn't cave in on the off-shore drilling just to try and gain some support from Repubs which he will NEVER get. If he took a stand against what is clearly not beneficial to our country, he could have used the BP disaster as an example, but now he has to own it. And why does no one seem to realize we don't get to keep the oil we drill off our shores anyway? It goes into the international pot and we buy it back just the same.
And Zachary, may you never let facts sway your preconceived, partisan opinions.
It is embarrassing when others seem partisan--yes. When critical thinking occurs, then mutual responsibility happens too. Since I have been a mom, I get more concerned about partisan politics because I am trying to raise good citizens...it would be nice for my children to have the choice of at least two parties to decide from when voting. But, my children may get turned off by the lack of responsibility taken. They are fairly clever and realize that nobody is perfect. It's only when we recognize mistakes that steps can be taken to change them. If we feel there is only one choice when voting--it ends up as no choice anyway--thus killing the whole idea of the freedom of choice in the US.
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I hadn’t noticed it at this point, as my dealings with the conservative mindset were new, but whenever I gave the correct information after partisan bullshit was thrown at me, it was then ignored as if it was never said in the first place. For example, the two sets of numbers used to calculate Obama’s and Bush’s debt levels. Also, certain things that are considered bad when Democrats do it are not considered bad when Republicans do it. Like what is to be considered a bribe. Something else I would come to notice as my involvement in the political arena continued; if a Republican was President, it was always the Democratic Congress that was to blame for bad stuff and if a Democrat was President, it was always his fault for bad stuff. And even later, I came to understand that anything bad ever was the Democrats’ fault and anything good ever was due to Republicans. For example: Carter caused the recession after Reagan lowered taxes – Reagan balanced the budget after Clinton left office – Clinton caused 9/11 after Bush did nothing to prevent it (see previous post: A Conversation With The Decider) – Obama caused the recession after Bush started two wars and lowered taxes twice.