Tuesday, February 14, 2012

Preconceived Reality

This is another fine example of fact versus fantasy.

After using facts and logic, I’m told I was twisting the truth and providing no facts. This Republican style of pure denial of anything they don’t agree with is a fucking amazing thing to me. I know there have been studies on this subject, but holy shit. It’s like their eyes and ears are just physically unable to process the words and sounds that they don’t like. It’s as if the facts only exist in some ultraviolet and ultrasound environment undetectable to a Conservative’s sensory perception.


To be fair, he never says he’s a Republican. But it’s pretty evident from where he gets his opinions told to him. After reading this, decide for yourself.

The names have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty – and all the shady characters in between.


A friend posted this on Facebook:

the REAL men do the work, so that the boys can play.
Bill Mancuso
Everyone - including the vast majority of vets, citizens and city Mayors - wants a parade. Only, ONLY the brass at the Pentagon say no.
I wasn’t looking for an argument. I was simply stating that only the Pentagon was against parades. I even agree with his “REAL men” comment. But then he had to go and post this completely made up statement…

Bill--the President said no.

Bill Mancuso
Brutus--no, he didn't.

You can tell I wasn’t looking for a fight by the extremely short response I gave. I would have been quite happy to leave it there. But then he had to go and post THIS unsubstantiated nonsense…

my military experience leads me to believe that no order like this comes from anywhere but the top.

the Pentagon would never say no unless told to.

Bill Mancuso
So, other than the fact that he hasn't said it, it hasn't been reported that he said it, no film or audio exists with him saying it, no one in the Pentagon said he said it and no rumors even exist that he said it - you are thoroughly convinced he said it.

Facts don't have any effect on your preconceived opinion-making process. Is this what you're saying?

but how does your logic fit with the brass at the Pentagon saying no then? the Pentagon says that they haven't been asked to plan one.

have you ever served? are you familiar with how the military chain of command works?

He did it. Now, I was in.

Bill Mancuso
New York Mayor Bloomberg has quite famously asked the Pentagon for a parade. They told him no. Where do you get that the Pentagon says no one asked them? Is this another opinion you based contrary to facts? (I wanted to say, "You just completely fucking made that shit up to support the previous shit you completely made up about the President saying no. Do you think I'm an idiot? That I wouldn't check what you said?" Sometimes, I'm capable of restraint in the face of stupidity. I often want to curse more than I do. I guess he didn't think I would check, since this is how all Republicans operate: 1. Turn on FOX 2. Have uninformed prejudices confirmed 3. Never check separate source for validity of information for fear of learning truth 4. Repeat confirmed uninformed prejudices)

In fact, the President and First Lady are hosting a dinner on 29 Feb specifically to honor the Iraq Vets. Do you suggest the POTUS wants to honor the Vets and not honor the Vets simultaneously?

The DOD says no to a parade. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said no. The Army secretary said no. The Army chief of staff said no.

I have not served. I am familiar with how the military chain of command works.

Serving in the military is not a requirement for dealing with facts.

yes (FOX "News" told me) the dinner was conveniently announced after the backlash from the announcement that there would be no parades.

no where did I say that serving in the military was a requirement for dealing with facts.

the fact of the matter is, and if you had served in the military you would be familiar with this, the higher up the officer chain a person goes the more of an ass kisser and coverer they become. this is magnified for those at the Pentagon.

He has a very loose grasp on the meaning of the word "fact."

This choice would not be made by anyone that had not spoken with the President about it.

If this command was given by Leon Panetta or the individual members of the Joint Chiefs of staff to their subordinates, then it came from the big dog.

That's the way it works.

Or do you believe that Eric Holder had nothing to do with Fast and Furious either?

Bill Mancuso
The President, for a fact, did not say no. Obviously, you do not care about this fact and will continue to insist he did say no.

This is evident by your introduction of Fast and Furious, an issue irrelevant to the topic at hand designed to obfuscate rather than inform. And also evident in that you ignored the fact that after you said no one asked the Pentagon for a parade, I pointed out that someone did. And that you find the dinner to be a ploy. You apparently will not let facts inform your prejudices and will invent any excuse supporting the contrary, no matter how illogical or untrue.

I have not served in the military. But as I said, I DO know how the chain of command works. My comment about dealing with facts goes exactly toward your reply to this. Your nonsensical excuse is that nobody said Obama gave the order because everyone is kissing his ass. And only military personnel could possibly know this.


if that's the way you want to twist it there is nothing I can do about it. you have provided no proof that he didnt say no.

it's ok I get it you are a loyalist

Bill Mancuso
I'm the one not providing proof? I'm the one twisting things?

Que Twilight Zone theme.

Since there is not one single iota of evidence that he DID say no to parades, the burden of proof lies with you in proving he did say it. Not with me proving that having NO proof proves there IS proof. What you propose makes no sense. At all. On any level.

And I am not a loyalist. I have plenty of problems with many of the things Obama has and has not done. But they are not the topic we are currently discussing.

I am dealing in facts. Of which you are ignoring or denying because they don't fit your predetermined conclusion - as I have clearly shown.

If Obama did give the order, which he didn't, what could possibly be the reason for the Pentagon brass hiding this? And don't give me some right-wing crap about everyone protecting the evil President. That's partisan conspiracy ignorance.

Seems to me the only reason to hide if he gave the order, would be to specifically support your invented argument. And no other reason.

It's circular logic.

As this discussion has now become. Circular.

Good day.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

My favorite part of this whole conversation is this sentence, “You have provided no proof that he didn’t say no.”

I mean, seriously. Is he fucking kidding? Or just stupid. Or a Republican. This blind denial of facts by Republicans will never cease to amaze me. There is no proof Obama didn’t say no. And it’s up to me to prove no proof is proof? I have to find proof proving the lack of evidence? I have to prove that since he didn’t say it, he didn’t say it?

And then there’s the classic projection response. He - obviously being a right-wing loyalist demanding the President is to blame, contrary to the facts - claims I am actually the unswerving left-wing loyalist. How dare I not blame the President, no matter how clearly the facts show the opposite to be true. I must be a loyalist. All fact-following and shit.

And, having laid out the facts clearly and succinctly, I have obviously only twisted them to fit my loyalist agenda.

Dammit, my brain hurts.

Similarly, when the numbers came out last week and showed that unemployment was down and jobs were up and the economy was getting better, FOX “News” said that even though the Bureau of Labor and Statistics was non-partisan, they work for Obama and they’re not surprised that they are lying about the numbers to protect Obama in an election year. To Republicans, Democrats are always wrong and Republicans are always right. And if any facts demonstrate the opposite, they are lies. Always.

I know there have been studies conducted that explain why this is the way the Republican mind works. I just have such a hard time believing people can be so entirely fucking moronic all the way down to the core like this.

And this whole discussion was irrelevant anyway. It was not an “order” given by anyone for parades not to be held. It was advice. A suggestion. The military cannot “order” city Mayors to do anything. And the President cannot “order” the Pentagon to “order” city Mayors not to give a parade. It isn’t a martial law emergency. It was a query about a parade.

And to be honest, I wondered why he didn’t counter my last fact with more nonsense. They usually never give up and just keep piling on the baseless opinions like so many turds in an unemptied cat litter box. So, I checked the thread. Only his original “REAL men” comment was left posted, the rest were wiped clean and a new thread of responses was there.

To be sure, I don’t think it was removed for political reasons. I’m positive it was due to there simply being a conflict. Some people just really don't like conflict.

Oh, well.

There will be others.

And let me be clear: I respect and support the troops. I’ve purchased and sent many items to the troops through donation organizations. I think they should have a parade. It’s the least this country can do after sacrificing absolutely nothing for the troops here at home. (Except, of course, being told to continue shopping for materialistic items. And continue eating out in fancy restaurants. And seeing Broadway plays. Big sacrifices like those.) Soldiers risk their lives no matter who is in charge of the country. It is a noble sacrifice.

We could also provide jobs and health services to them, but that is not an either/or situation. Jobs and health services should be provided anyway, but a parade would boost morale for soldiers still at war in Afghanistan at the very least. It would show them we do care instead of paying just a bunch of bullshit lip service on Facebook posts.

“I sacrificed for the troops. I posted something on Facebook and told everyone to copy and paste it. Yay for me!!”

I have no respect for soldiers who play upon this sacrifice. Who insinuate or outright claim that they know something that I don’t simply because they wear a uniform. As if wearing a uniform makes you smarter. Or soldiers who play the “I put my ass on the line so you can be a lazy good for nothing Liberal” card. As if no Liberals are soldiers and being a soldier makes them better than everyone else. Sanctimonious, self-righteous bullshit I can’t stand. No matter who it comes from. That’s not honorable. Wearing a military uniform doesn’t give you a free pass on being an ignorant asshole. Piss on any dead bodies lately? Yeah, that’s noble.

The uniform isn’t what makes a person. It’s the person inside the uniform that counts. I respect those who command respect, not demand respect.

And I also couldn’t give less of a shit about football. Have you read my Tim Tebow posts?

Stay tuned for another post involving a self-aggrandizing soldier.

1 comment:

  1. Fucking loved it. I was scrolling down he whole page, your first paragraph hooked me in.