Monday, October 21, 2013


Here’s the sequel to Talking Point Argument from last week.

This guy is precious. When you live in a world where you only read the headlines of right-wing articles (World Net Daily: KENYAN-BORN GAY MUSLIM SOCIALIST OBAMA REPEALS FREEDOM!) and watch Sean Hannity promos (“Next on Hannity: Obama unconstitutionally killed four American patriots in Benghazi!LibertyfreedomJesus!”), it’s very easy to slaughter your hilarious proclamations and feast on their entrails.

Of course, that doesn’t mean you won’t ignore real facts and blame me for ignoring “your” facts (that aren’t facts).



How are they paying someone to stop access if there is a shut down?

Bill Mancuso
They're not. The Rangers are volunteering their time.

[The appropriate response would be somewhere in the neighborhood of, “Oh. Thanks for the info,” which would end the conversation. But that would indicate that the question was asked in earnest. It was not. It was actually asked as a “Ha ha! Obama sucks and I have proof, so I’m going to pose a question that I think is a GOTCHA moment and expose him for the anti-Christ that he truly is!” Or something along those lines. Since his plan was foiled with facts, he immediately had to pivot to a new GOTCHA topic, like all right-wingers do. In pretty much every conversation I have with them. Are you wondering how it goes for him?]

So Rangers are allowed to volunteer their time but they are threatening Military Chaplains with disciplinary action if they volunteer theirs? Is it hard to see that a HUGE Federal Government sucks?

Bill Mancuso
Despite right-wing pseudo-outrage over something Obama neither caused or has any control over, and fueled by the pseudo-outrage over the pseudo-Christian persecution complex, let's put it in perspective, shall we?

Under 50 non-active-duty priests, hired as government contractors, are not allowed to perform duties due to the shutdown. Military Chaplains still can. If the less-than-50 contract-priests really, really, really feel the need to volunteer their duties for free, they can do it off base. So, the entire truth is, outside contractors that the government hires are not allowed to work on government property while the government is shut down. These few dozen just happen to be clergy. The park ranger is a government employee volunteering on government property.

No one is preventing any priests from doing anything for free. But don't let that stop the right-wing media from concocting lies to blame Obama for something that literally isn't happening. And let's certainly not let Christians stop from jumping on any excuse to pretend that their freedom is being suppressed.

[For those of you who don’t follow ‘what the FOX says’ (apologies - current pop culture reference that will probably be forgotten ten minutes after you finish this post), you may not have heard about this “Obama threatening military chaplains” story. That’s because, as I have explained, it’s not a story. When researching, I found NO references to it anywhere except on right-wing conspiracy sites and religious sites. The two main sites I got the real information from was on and a Christian website. Sorry, I forgot to save the links. As with all right-wing manufactured conspiracies, if you get past the sensational, misrepresentative title and read the actual article, you can find the facts mixed in with huge doses of misleading, straw-man, fear-mongering lies. Yes, all the facts I presented were found on two right-wing sites claiming Obama is a totalitarian Muslim dictator intent on crushing Christians. You just have to know how to read between the buzz-words.]

Why is no one on the right bitching about the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of other contract workers also not allowed to work? Or that tens of thousands of soldiers aren't receiving pay? Or that tens of thousands of mothers and infants aren't receiving their WIC food relief? Or that thousands of invalid senior citizens aren't getting their meals on wheels? Because drawing attention to the fact that Republicans don't really give a shit about people isn't conducive to their lie that they're shutting down the government because the people want them to. However, highlighting a few priests seems to support their lie that Obama's a Christian-hating, Muslim anti-Christ. And standing in front of a high-profile memorial and pretending to be fighting to keep it open (after they shut it down) and berating an honorable person working for free (because of them), all the while continuing to be paid themselves, easily fools people who blindly follow the lies being told by a particular Party.

Not that any of these facts mean anything to you, I just feel better for having aired the truth.

And, it is either disingenuous or ignorant to believe the size of government is relative to its effectiveness. A government run well is what matters. A large government is possible and has been proven to work. We've been doing it for over a couple centuries, now. The goal of Republicans for 30 years has been to try to make government fail so it can't interfere with corporate profits. They sabotage something, then claim it doesn't work. That's infantile. And obstructionist. And against the well-being of the citizens of the USA.


[I forgot to mention that after only Republicans caused the shutdown, only Republicans were showing up to take political advantage of WWII vets while claiming they weren’t going to let Democrats take political advantage of WWII vets, who were not taking political advantage of WWII vets. Republicans are laughably repugnant in their hypocrisy.]

What do vets think of ‘Panderin’ Palin?’
Vets yell, "Republicans shut down the government," and, "You're an Idiot!"

They are not bitching about it because they have provided funding via Bills sitting on Harry Reid's desk.

Bill Mancuso
Yes, specific bills that fund specific high-profile things, like National Parks, that Republicans needlessly shut down, just to make it seem like they are trying to help, which they are not, while still gutting a majority of programs that people need just so corporations can make more profits.

And Republicans shutting down the government to defund Obamacare has nothing to do with the budget crisis they created. There is nothing to negotiate. Republicans completely manufactured this crisis (that they've been planning to do since even before they won the House in 2010) and are pretending to be the ones who are trying to help. Manufacturing a crisis and pretend to be trying to fix it. Again, obstructing progress. Pathetic.

And it's on John Boehner's desk. He won't even allow a vote on a Senate budget measure to end the shutdown.

Way to ignore 99% of my response and pivot to something new in your reply. [Which he is about to do, again. True to form.]


What are they "gutting" so corporations can make a profit. Do enlighten us. Secondly, bills for spending must originate in the house. So nothing is on Boehners desk.

Bill Mancuso
If you're really interested in a comprehensive list of programs fully or partially stopped due to this Republican-manufactured crisis (which I know you're not, since you just seem to be pivoting from topic to topic after I debunk your hollow talking points, and only interested in a gotcha game), go here: The Washington Post: The Impact of a Federal Shutdown

The billionaires like the Koch Brothers who are bankrolling the Republicans in this obstructionism are trying to weaken the government to reduce its power to tax and regulate them. Less taxes & regulations means more money in the pocket. Really, this isn't all that hard to figure out. Unless you've decided not to think for yourself and just believe FOX and right-wing scream radio that poor people are getting all the free money they can possibly swim in to distract you from the fact that the richest 1% are stealing all the money and getting richer all the time while the rest of Americans get poorer. Subsidies given to million & billion dollar profit corporations dwarf any subsidies that go toward feeding and housing working people who live under the poverty line.

And by "on Boehner's desk," I only meant that metaphorically to compare to your "on Reid's desk" proclamation. Sorry it confused you. If I said "it's in Boehner's hands" or "it's up to Boehner," would that help? Did you read anything I wrote there that explains what I was talking about? Or did you just look for what you perceived (incorrectly) as a flaw in my explanation?

There is no crisis. The Republicans created this because they lost the election. "Defund Obamacare or we crash the government" is not democracy, it's terrorism, or at the very least, extortion. Obamacare is the LAW. There is nothing to negotiate. The time to negotiate was 3 years ago. They refused to. Their only options are to work to make it better or get out of the way of progress.

What do you want to ignore and pivot to now?



Considering the tangential nature of your posts, and your outstanding ability to digress into sarcasm, I have to pick and choose what to respond to. The reason I chose your comment regarding it "Being on Boehner's desk" is that it highlighted your lack of understanding as to what is happening right now in Washington DC. The Republicans HAVE provided a few vehicles that would serve to continue the funding of the Government as we know it today but Harry Reid, who is in charge of the Senate, is refusing to allow those Bills to the floor for a vote. Lastly, you weren't able, or are unwilling, to mention one single program that the Republicans are "gutting" so "corporations can make a profit" in this process of getting through this so called crisis.



Bill Mancuso
For the love of peanut butter and banana sandwiches. Tangential nature of MY posts? Seriously?

I answered your question of how they were paying park rangers. They're volunteering. This thread should have ended with, "Oh, that's how. Thanks." YOU started a tangent EVERY time I fully debunked it. YOU are playing a "gotcha" game every time I answer your new tangential post. Not me. You are doing to me right now what Republicans are doing to Democrats - blaming me for what you are doing.

The Republicans have NOT provided any vehicles to continue funding the government. They provided a fake crisis in which to pretend to offer solutions in order to look like the good guys, but are really only trying to weaken government so corporations can do what they want. It's not exactly a secret that that's been their goal for decades. It's so blatantly a scam that no one believes this except for a few right-wing Teabagger-type extremists. Simply explained, the current budget is operating at the "sequester" level. That is LOWER than Republican Paul Ryan's proposed budget. Republicans are currently receiving MORE than they asked for, as far as the budget goes, so there is NOTHING to fight over in that regard. Also, Obamacare is the LAW. There is NOTHING to negotiate. The time to negotiate was 3 years ago when it was a bill, but Republicans all refused to participate and instead obstruct. The bill passed the House with a majority of votes. The bill passed the Senate with a majority of votes. The President signed the bill into law. The Supreme Court confirmed its Constitutionality. A majority of Americans reaffirmed their desire for it by re-electing Obama, who ran almost totally on the health care bill. (It's so wildly popular to the American people, the website received 5 times more traffic than any government site ever received at once in the first 8 hours, crashing the server.) [And exposing glitches in the website, but that’s a different story.] To Republicans, that means it was snuck through, it's unConstitutional, and nobody wants it. So, the "fiscally responsible" Party held 42 symbolic votes, costing taxpayers $50 million to repeal it. [Plus an extra $24 Billion for shutting down the government. Because that’s how fiscally responsible that Party is.] They fully knew it would never happen, but they are pandering to the extremist Teabaggers - a 10% minority of one half of one of three branches of the government. The Republicans are insisting a law be repealed or changed or they shut the government down - that's not offering ways to help the government, that's economic terrorism - threatening the to default on the full faith and credit of the United States just to get what they want. The Republicans lost the election. The people have spoken. That's how a democracy works. Time to be grown-ups again and participate in our democracy - not continue this economic terrorism while pretending to cherish the Constitution.

Lastly, what is it about that extremely long list of programs that are being further gutted, or shut down (so sorry my words completely flummox your comprehension of the topic) during this Republican-manufactured crisis, that have been previously gutted by the previous Republican-manufactured sequester crisis, that are you unable to understand? If you read the next part slowly, maybe you will understand what has already happened and will continue to happen with these programs and corporations. Less  taxes  are  collected.  Less  taxes  go  toward  social  welfare  programs.  Less  employees  to  inspect  and  enforce  corporate  regulations.  Corporations  keep  more  money  and  get  richer  while  poor  people  who  need  the  closed  programs  to  survive  just  get  poorer. Also, corporations get away with violating regulations, which means less fines are levied against them and they keep yet more money.

There. Now I've explained everything to you twice. And the second time without all that distracting sarcastic digression.

As for you picking and choosing what to respond to: yeah, it was because of sarcasm, not the fact that your hollow talking points were debunked every single time.

Dammit! I almost got through the whole thing without digressing into sarcasm. Oh, well. Maybe next time.


Yes, you read that last one right: After Republicans shut the government down, they launched an investigation into what caused the government to shut down. Fucking priceless.

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What the “Fiscally Responsible” Party is costing America in real time:

I realize this is a 6-minute video of a socialist who is talking on a libtard network, but give it a listen, ay? You might learn something.

A Political Crisis
David Pakman Show: Obama Invites All Republicans to Meeting, Nearly All Decline

 Bill Moyers Essay: Shutdown Showdown

New TV Ad: "Demand a Vote"

They never learn. Republicans seem to be unable to process new information. I can’t wait till they try to shut down the government again in a few months.

“But how can I continue my Benghazi investigation if no federal investigators can work?”

And as to what started this post: If anyone is interested in what happened to the reprehensible fucking scumbag Representative Randy Neugebauer:

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Monty Python and the Holy Grail Serious Trailer

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