Classic Conservative maneuver: Ask a question about which
you do not care to know the truth - your real goal being only to create an
opportunity to complain about something you oppose. Then ignore or dismiss the
truth when it’s presented to you because it contradicts your uninformed
preconceived notion.
Enjoy…
August 29, 2013
Ashley
I will probably get so much hate comments I will end up
deleting this but... What is up with going on strike for $15/hr for fast food.
Recent college grads who have exceptional work/intern history can barely find a
job and when they do they do not make much more than $15/hr. If you have the
education and skills to get a better paying job then working at fast food than
do. I'm not saying those that work in fast food aren't worthy of better but if
I wasn't happy with my job or pay I would figure out how I could better myself
and move on. Sorry I just don't get it.
Mary and 17 others like this.
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This is why.
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Minnie
100% agree!!
Herbert
I guess one may need to think about how much the worker is
contributing to the bottom line...If its a $100 an hour ... maybe $15 an hour
is fair...
Eve
I worked in fast food when I was in high school making
minimum wage because that's what that skill is worth. I knew that if I got an
education I wouldn't have to work in fast food for the rest of my life. I would
learn a skill that would pay my bills. It's not that complicated if a 15 year
old can figure it out. I'm as dumbfounded as you are.
[Unfortunately, the cost of
school has blown unattainably through the roof for most people, as well. And
statistically, only 24% of fast food workers are kids. Most are now late 20’s
and up, with families to support. Also, moving to China or Bangladesh for a
$1/hr job isn’t a realistic goal. Life is not now as it was then.]
Minnie
$100/hour net? Another way to think of this is sure, maybe
$100/hr is coming in during peak hours, but then during the non-peak hours,
should the pay be less? [Many more than 10 or 15
people go into McDonald’s during an off-peak hour. The company would never make
billions in profit otherwise. Herbert’s $100/hr bottom line guesstimate is
incredibly low.] Besides that, why can't the business owner have the
choice? [To pay their employees even less than the
minimum wage, which hasn’t kept up with inflation since 1968? That’s just fucking
dumb.] And, like she said, if employees find this unacceptable,
better yourself and get a different job. [In
Bangladesh.] A fast food job was never intended to support a family.
[Previous to corporations outsourcing and
automating. Again, current America is not like 1950's America.] Times are tough but I don't think it should fall on the
franshise owners of the fast food world to fix it. The incentive should be for
these people to WANT to better themselves. [Who doesn't WANT to better themselves?]
Herbert
Just sayin.. If on average I contribute a hundred bucks an
hour to the bottom line... I may be worth fifteen bucks an hour.. [Closer to $20, actually.]
Minnie
If you contribute? I guess I am confused by your terminology.
So here is what I think when you say that...There are, on average 15 people or
so in any given fast food restaurant working at one time, not to mention all
the overhead...rent for the building, equipment, power, phones, office
supplies, etc. Then there is the cost of the actual food they are selling. Not
to mention the products needed to deliver that food...bags, fry holders, cups,
drink holders, paper wrapping, straws, sugar, salt pepper, ketchup...all of
that. So while the intake for any given hour may be $1000 let's say, that is
quickly whittled away by all the above listed items. THEN, you also have to
offset those big money hours by ALL the very very small money hours that the
same employee who during one hour was "raking it in" is now being
paid to sit and read a book. I don't think the employee is
"contributing" anything. They are working, they get guaranteed
breaks, discounts on food, bathroom breaks, etc. I think the system in place is
VERY fair and again, a great incentive for a better skill set. [What fucking fantasy fast food utopia do you live in? The
simple fact that fast food makes billions in profit negates EVERY SINGLE word
you just barfed out from your keyboard.]
George
McDonald’s CEO make 230 times more than a person making
federal minimum wage. Does he add 230 times the value?
[What? A link to information backing up your statement? You Libtard.]
Eve
Yes. Yes he does. [The CEO works
230 fucking times harder than his employee? La-la la-la! La-la la-la! Eve’s
World! La-la la-la! La-la la-la! Eve’s World!]
Minnie
Uhm well yeah, he's taking all the risk. What is the person
making minimum wage risking? [Feeding their family. 68% of fast food workers are the primary income earners in their family. Also, 52% are on a welfare program - which translates to $7 Billion a year in taxpayer subsidies. And, 87% can't afford health insurance. Guess who pays for that?]
George
What is "risky" about being the CEO of McDonald's?
He's a figurehead. The current CEO didn't start the company.
Eve
He's running a multi-gazillion dollar international
corporation. [And how much of that multi-gazillion
dollars are trickling down on the people actually doing all the work to keep
Mr. 230 in business? The average worker must work a FULL MONTH to get what a CEO makes in ONE FUCKING HOUR.] And when he went to his job interview he
negotiated for a wage and agreed upon it. Just like the guy who agreed to take
a job making minimum wage. [No. He was told how much
the job is paying. Without a choice.] If you want to earn more,
learn a skill that is worth more. [See: skyrocketed
cost of higher education not easily attainable jobs in Bangladesh.]
Minnie
Yes, I know. I understand the position of CEO. However, it does
include a fair amount of risk. [Not 320 times the
risk. 40? Sure. 80? Why not? 150? Okay, but let’s quit while we’re ahead, ay?
320? In 2011, the McDonald's CEO made $4.1 Million. In 2012, his salary jumped to $13.8 Million - about a 350% increase. Fuck you and your whole family. And your pets, too.]
George
That's not a fair comparison, Eve. how much leverage to
"negotiate" pay do you suppose the burger flipper had compared to the
CEO? [Exactly nada.] The larger point
here is that $15 an hour is (almost, but not quite) what the minimum wage would
actually be today had it been raised fairly to account for inflation and cost
of living. But companies like McDonald's have spent decades lobbying to keep it
as low as possible. [Holy shit. A truth-seeker! Burn
him!]
Minnie
Well, maybe he should go back to school and learn the value
of negotiation. [Fast food employees don’t get to
fucking negotiate, you fucktard.] Do you think he is as likely to be
sued as the CEO? Do you think his job hinges on profits like the CEO? [No one is saying CEO’s aren’t worth more. Just not 230
times more.] [This next bit is awesome:]
You do understand that if you ask the country to double minimum wage during
these economic times especially, you will almost guarantee a dip back into
recession or depression. Prices will go up and the raise will be negated, not
to mention what those price hikes will do to people actually earning $15 per
hour before the raise. This is a ridiculous idea. You don't just double minimum
wage. [According to all previous instances when the
minimum wage was raised, even during recessions, none of the bullshit that just
came out of your mouth ever happened. What you’re thinking of is the
deportation of migrant workers.]
George
Well, it’s the company that gets sued, usually. I'm sure if
he's sued personally the board of directors has a nice, robust general
liability policy to cover it.
Minnie
Oh give me a break! Well, I hope that in the utopian world
you live in, we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya, but meanwhile here in
reality I am telling you this would spell disaster for our economy and those
most affected would be the people who just got the raise. [Wha-?] And don't even give me any of krugmans
crap. That guy is awful! Do you seriously buy into his nonsense? [When facts prove you wrong, a good Conservative will just
call it a lie. And never provide evidence that supports the sounds coming
out of their mouths.]
George
Clearly, there's not much use in continuing this
conversation. Good night.
Minnie
I was just thinking the same thing. I am sure you are a
super nice guy because any friend of jon and ashley's always is but we will
have to agree to disagree. Good night
Sullivan
Agreed.
Half the cooks in NYC do not make that much [They SHOULD. Why do you people not get this simple fact?]
[Uncharacteristically of me, I
approached this calm, cool and collected. It didn’t last long, but fuck you, I
tried.]
Bill Mancuso
Ashley, to answer your original question - Because $15/hr is
what minimum wage should be right now had it increased with inflation.
Currently, minimum wage workers are being paid to live in the economy of 1968.
With this minimum wage, people are being forced to live in poverty, which in
turn is forcing more people to go on welfare. If you check out the website that
McDonald's created to help employees manage their money, even that states that
you need two full-time minimum wage jobs in order to save $100/month - and
doesn't take into account several necessities, like heating bills - so, in
reality, you're not really able to save anything. Hope your refrigerator
doesn't break or you don't need new tires.
It's not just about fast food workers. It's about all jobs.
Including college grads. And aside from many college grads having the
misfortune of entering the workforce today and having no options but to take
fast food jobs, many parents with children also work in the fast food industry.
The average age of a fast food worker is 28. Women, who make up 2/3 of the
industry, are an average of 32 years old. Plus, most fast food employers assign
under 40 hours a week so benefits don't kick in.
The true job creators are a healthy middle class, not
corporations. If people can't buy stuff, then people don't make stuff. If
people don't make stuff, then businesses don't hire employees to make that
stuff. Our economy is weak right now because the middle class is shrinking. And
the middle class is shrinking due to the abject failure of 30+ years of trickle-down
economics.
A loaf of bread doesn't cost what it did in 1968.
Wealth distribution In America
Minnie
I love the language...force? Are you kidding me? [No. If you can’t negotiate your salary for a minimum wage
job, you’re… what… c’mon, now… you’re… FORCED, you fucking moron.]
Thankfully our government doesn't have the ability to force us into
anything...yet! Of course, if we keep electing Barack Obama's it won't be long!
[Like, for a third term?] [Oh, and before I forget -
BENGHAZI!]
[What other response to that
abject stupidity could I give but this…]
Bill Mancuso
[I laughed and laughed.]
Ashley
Everyone has given this so much thought and I'm so glad. If
someone with no education and no true job skills can make $15/ hour on a cash
register (which requires no math skills) make $15/ hr then I should be making 6
figs. Should I ask the government to increase my pay too? I just don't see
valid arguments for handouts-sorry.
But I love you all:)
[I didn’t
really want an answer, so I’m going to ignore it. I just wanted to complain
about poor people.]
George
Ashley -- You probably SHOULD be making 6 figures. [Of course, Ashley works for a corporation where she
negotiated her salary. She doesn’t have a minimum wage job that her employer
would pay less if not forced by the government to at least pay that minimum
wage.] And so should I, as a skilled I/T professional. The point is
that wages have stagnated at all levels except the very top. I don't think
demanding a living wage is a handout. We've seen studies where a Wal-mart opens
in a community and ends up COSTING that community money -- Paying wages so low
that it actually encourages it's employees to apply for SNAP, ie, food stamps.
I don't see this issue as a handout at all. More like, "a high tide lifts
all boats". Bernie Sanders thinks so, too:
* *
* *
Bill Mancuso
There are no handouts. That makes no sense. What do you have
against being paid a fair wage at 2013 inflation levels? Why do you want people
to be paid at the 1968 level? The whole point is that no one is earning what
they should. The bottom 95% is paid too little and the top 5% is paid insanely
too much.
Betty
So True Ashley- Why don't they stop crying proverty and get
off their butts and do something about it. [Like
protest for a livable wage?] We all have to work hard to get
anywhere-no one give us any handouts!!!! [Earning a
livable wage is not a goddamned hand-out!!!!]
George
They ARE doing something about it - organizing protest and
drawing our attention to the inherent unfairness of the situation.
Bill Mancuso
Yeah, work two 40-hour jobs just to meet the 2013 livable
wage mark.
No one is being lazy. No one wants handouts. Everyone just
wants to be paid the true cost of living for the year 2013. Not 1968. What is
so difficult about that to understand? [You stupid
goddamn selfish assholes. (I edit my civility a lotta lot.)]
As for “crying poverty,” a 40-hr week at minimum wage is
about $300/week before taxes. You could survive on that in 1968. Not today.
Wendy
Another angle: in 1965, the average CEO salary was 24 times
the average employee’s. In 2010, CEO’s earned 243 times what employees were
paid (Economic Policy Institute)—to say nothing of the people who were laid
off. So the problem is less workers’ wages and more corporate elites protecting
their own. [NOOO! More facts! Run! Save yourselves!]
Jeb
It's sad but all the slackers whose goal is to make a career
off minimum wage jobs are stealing entry level jobs from our children. When you
raise the first step on the ladder fewer people will reach it. God Bless the
teachers union.
Bill Mancuso
None of that makes the slightest bit of sense. [I WANTED to say: What the fuck are you jabbering on
about, you half-wit?]
Slackers are stealing minimum-wage jobs? Working in fast
food is so easy, it's considered a slacker job? 35-year-old mothers, many
working 2 jobs, are slackers?
Let's try this one more time. [And
try paying the fuck attention, you mental pygmy.]
Minimum wage is currently set for the 1968 economy. That's
thirty-five years ago. What do you have against the minimum wage being set for
a 2013 level?
McDonald's alone made $5.5billion in profits in 2012 - that
was a 27% increase over the past 5 years. Not only is that wealth NOT "trickling down," it's literally trickling
UP. [In case we're still not clear about this, it's referred to as "Reaganomics."]
Keep defending corporate profits over the well-being of
people. [And ignore everything I just said.]
Jeb
Without corporate profits there would be no jobs. I guess
'The Dude' would consider a minimum wage job a great accomplishment. I'm sure
you know he is the poster child of 'Slackers'. LOL
[My profile pic was Lebowski at
the time. What would an argument with a conservative be without an ad hominem
attack?]
George
Corporate profits does not equal jobs. Explain why corporate
profits are at an all time high, yet we still have unemployment rates over 7%.
Bill Mancuso
Ad hominem attack: The only defense when you can't defend
your argument.
I can't tell if you are insulting or defending minimum wage
jobs. Your posts present contradictory sentiments.
As for profits creating jobs: Wrong. [As I fucking already explained,] Without the ability to
purchase goods, there are no corporate profits. Purchasing power creates jobs.
AGAIN: paying people in 2013 the wages of 1968 it not good for the economy. Why
do people refuse to understand this VERY SIMPLE economic fact?
And before you ignore George’s question about the highest
recorded corporate profits vs the unemployment rate, let me answer it for you:
Jeb
"A day ahead of the bill’s final passage last month,
Wal-Mart told council members and the public that it would abandon plans for
three of the six stores and explore options for withdrawing from the others
should legislators proceed. The ultimatum changed no votes on the council."
[I dig the copy-and-paste
responses. They always think it somehow supports their blabberings. It never does.]
Bill Mancuso
Have you a point? Other than DC Mayor Gray enjoys forcing
people to partake in taxpayer welfare? Because Wal*Mart pays 28% less than the
average retail employer, which exploits workers while forcing me and you to
kick in to their welfare - to the tune of $5,815 per employee.
[Not that he contributed much,
but it was at this point that Jeb deleted all of his comments. It now seems
like George and I are clairvoyant, replying to ghosts that only we can sense.]
***** ***** *****
Now for all my additional post-conversation facty things.
There be many. Coffee, you’ll be a needin’.
***** ***** *****
Four members of the Walton family, heirs to Sam Walton's
Wal-Mart fortune, are collectively worth more than $100 billion— more wealth
than the entire bottom 40% of Americans. They are doing everything in their
power not to give up a penny more than they have to.
***** ***** *****
***** ***** *****
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Which, obviously, means poor people on welfare working two jobs and still not breaching the poverty line are the problem.
***** ***** *****
How many minimum wage hours per week does it take to afford a two-bedroom apartment in your state?
***** ***** *****
***** ***** *****
I suppose you wanted proof that paying a fair wage would not
only NOT collapse the economy, but would boost it. It’s not difficult to find.
There are many examples.
*****
*****
*****
*****
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*****
And the 1949 income tax rate was 82%. Capital gains tax 25%.
*****
*****
***** ***** *****
*COUGH*reaganomics*COUGH*
***** ***** *****
The minimum wage in San Francisco is almost $11.00. Santa Fe
is in a “highest minimum wage in the US” competition with them. In all articles
about those two cities, they “fairly” represent both the workers who love it
and the employers who hate it. What the media fairly avoids explaining is that employers are greedy
assholes. Instead of raising the price of their menu items a dime (oh, the
horror!), they close up shop and move out of town. Fuck them. Like that
multi-millionaire Papa John douchebag, who bitched about Obamacare forcing him
to reduce hours when all he had to do is add 14¢ to the cost of his heartburn
specials. Of course, he was lying. Douche. Why give employees healthcare when
you can be a super-greedy douchebag? And why didn't he cry when health insurance rates went up every year before Obamacare? Cunt.
Like I said: Cunt.
Oh, and at the same time he was complaining about Obamacare
destroying his business, he gave away 2 Million pizzas for an NFL promotion.
That’s in the neighborhood of $20,000,000. Let me spell it out: Twenty million
dollars. Cunty cunt cunt.
***** ***** *****
McSeriously watch this video. It's all true.
***** ***** *****
And here are a couple more douches, Larry Kudlow and Carol
Roth arguing with economist Jared Bernstein, a man quoting empirical evidence
and historical facts. Their argument, on the other hand, is that people don’t
need to be paid fairly because American Spirit, Fuck Yeah! We ROCK!
My favorite is while Carol is arguing about the indomitable
American Spirit, Jared keeps asking her to address the research. She never
does. Well, that would mean she’s wrong, so why would she?
Oh, by the way, Carol believes insider trading should be
legal. If you don’t know what that is, it’s basically rich people letting rich
people know beforehand which stocks are going to go up so they can buy them and
get richer.
***** ***** *****
***** ***** *****
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***** ***** *****
What should you be
earning?
Good day.
***** ***** *****
P.S. –
This is related to the topic of minimum wage.
Two years ago, I wrote about a billionaire and
multi-millionaire complaining that Obama’s policies are destroying business.
They’re lying. They’re out-of-touch-with-reality, obscenely rich people who are
complaining about having to pay employees. If only slavery wasn’t outlawed.
Here’s what I wrote:
¡Vete a la Chingada, Steve Wynn & Andy Puzder!
On July 18, 2011, Billionaire Las Vegas casino mogul Steve
Wynn, speaking to investors on a conference call, said...
"And I’m saying it bluntly, that this administration is
the greatest wet blanket to business and progress and job creation in my
lifetime. And I can prove it and I could spend the next 3 hours giving you
examples of all of us in this market place that are frightened to death about
all the new regulations, our healthcare costs escalate, regulations coming from
left and right. A President that seems - that keeps using that word
"redistribution." Well, my customers and the companies that provide
the vitality for the hospitality and restaurant industry, in the United States
of America, they are frightened of this administration. And it makes you slow
down and not invest your money. Everybody complains about how much money is on
the side in America.
"You bet until we change the tempo and the conversation
from Washington, it’s not going to change. And those of us who have business
opportunities and the capital to do it are going to sit in fear of the
President. And a lot of people don’t want to say that. They’ll say, God, don’t
be attacking Obama. Well, this is Obama’s deal and it’s Obama that’s
responsible for this fear in America.
"The guy keeps making speeches about redistribution and
maybe we ought to do something to businesses that don’t invest - they're
holding too much money. We haven’t heard that kind of talk except from pure
socialists. Everybody’s afraid of the government and there’s no need soft
peddling it, it’s the truth. It is the truth. And that’s true of Democratic
businessman and Republican businessman, and I am a Democratic businessman and I
support Harry Reid. I support Democrats and Republicans. And I’m telling you
that the business community in this country is frightened to death of the weird
political philosophy of the President of the United States. And until he’s
gone, everybody’s going to be sitting on their thumbs."
Aside from just vomiting this baseless rhetoric, where are
any actual facts about Obama's policies that are destroying capitalism in
America. Why didn't he spend the next three hours giving examples to prove it
like he said he could? At least he could have given the details on how Obama's
"pure socialist" policies have absolutely destroyed his multi-billion
dollar empire without any possible hope of rebuilding until Obama is gone.
Oh, wait. He did explain. In the very same conference call, Wynn
also said, "We had a great first quarter, the best in our history. And we
went through it - we were just around $400 million in the first quarter. We are
$447 million this time [second quarter], and that quarter was about 59% better
than a year ago. And in fact, for the six months, we're 62% better than a year
ago..."
And these kinds of record-breaking profits are occurring in
all corporations across the board right now, due to the lowest tax rates in 60
years. Under Obama. You know, just based on facts. Only, it's not trickling
down to the employees, who are getting laid off and salary-cut and overseas
outsourced.
So, basically Steve Wynn is a lying, hypocritical piece of
shit. If all his profits are going up, up, up, then why the pointless, fear-mongering,
bullshit-based Obama bashing? What is the purpose?
The only conclusion I can come up with is that Steve Wynn is
a dick. And a lying, hypocritical piece of shit.
And then there's Andy Puzder, CEO of CKE Restaurants (Carl's
Jr. and Hardee's). Take a listen to what poor Andy says about Obama killing his
business. You know it's good if it's on Neal Boortz:
Sounds pretty devastating, doesn't it? Too bad he's lying.
Unless you don't count CKE's posted six-fold jump in quarterly profit last year
that beat market expectations, aided by a $9.9 million tax benefit (taxpayer
welfare hand-out) and a drop in operating costs. Then yeah, Obama killed li'l
Andy's business.
Everything I called Steve Wynn you can apply to Andy Puzder.
Dicks.
*****
Rich people and their lobbyists have successfully kept the
minimum wage down for over 40 years. Workers only have unions to help them and
the corporate-controlled Republican Party is systematically destroying them.
*****
Pretty much everything Russel Brand says is true. Except about voting. He's dead fucking wrong about that.
Obama sure sucks at socialism.
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