Monday, July 25, 2016

Confederate Feelings: The Dixie Swastika

I’m becoming more intolerant of bullshit.

Both sides of every issue do not have equal merit. Many issues don’t even have two sides. Whether you’re talking about science (vaccines do not cause autism; there is no merit to the argument that it does), politics (trickle-down economics does not work; there is no evidence that it does), or history (Lincoln was not a racist who hated black people and had nothing to do with freeing them; just shut the fuck up), some things are just unmitigated facts without debate.

Liars say burning fossil fuels have nothing to do with global warming. Insecure fundamentalists say magic created people and the Earth. Charlatans say essential oils cure whateverthefuck. These are not “the other side of the debate.” There is no debate. You can’t “teach the controversy.” There is no controversy. There is the truth and there is bullshit. (Not everything is always black and white, but in cases that are black and white such as these, they are black and white. Got it?)

Here, I debate the meaning of the Southern Flag. Actually, it’s not even the Southern Flag; that’s another stupid thing about it. Depending on its shape, it is a battle flag of a particular army. This is the flag of the Confederate States of America:

What follows is the dumbest, most nonsensical argument you will ever read. I dare you to accept this guy’s “logic.”

Anyway, I am intolerant of bullshit.


And even more died for the Nazi flag; I suppose they deserve to be honored? And by whom?

620,000 died in a revolt against our government and divided the union.

It was Abraham Lincoln who insisted that all of them deserved to be honored and that all ultimately contributed to the same cause.

[Caution: Social Justice Moron Warrior expectorating random platitudes ahead.]

I know it seems to hurt your feeling when the confederate (Battle Flag of Virginia) is flown or is on top of a car, or even at a confederate war memorial many states away from you. I also know that to you it is a symbol of slavery and hate. But there are people who's feelings are hurt because same sex couple, hold hands or kiss in public. I gather it is the exact same place that these hurt feelings exist in our brains and they are strong enough to outright hatred, belittling a personal issue, that really has no affect on your life if the flag is flown or two people kiss - so when ever you are confused about the discrimination laws being passed, remember you want this, you strive to make this happen, each and every time we take someone's freedom away. You are the cause instead of the solution - Let them have their flag, let them even have their Nazi flag, but they can't chose that and say these are the freedoms of yours we take away - no no no! Freedom for all no exceptions, that is how we must be and it doesn't matter if your feelings are hurt, the only reason your feelings are hurt is because you are allowing someone else to rent space in your head. They don't need a reason, it doesn't need to honor those who fought on the confederacy. if it does for you, great wonderful, but it doesn't have to, you should be allowed to fly the flag because you like the Dukes of Hazard - the only thing that should matter is you have the freedom to fly it, whenever or however you like.

You're speaking of the traitorous flag of an insurrectionist army against the United States of America? A flag that represents owning an entire race of people and using them as farm animals? No. It's not about hurt feelings. That's absurd. Trying to claim everything is equal results only as an attempt to justify hate and intolerance. It's about fighting against the representation of specific and heinous ideas against humanity. Just like the Nazi flag. Gay people marrying & transgendered people using a restroom is not equal to shackling and whipping black people to death out in a field. Hurt feelings - right. You want to proudly fly that flag? Go ahead. But all you're doing is holding up a sign that says "I'm an ignorant piece of shit racist." No one is writing laws against racist traitor flags. Government officials are just realizing racist traitor flags are stupid and removing them from government buildings. They do not represent the values of this nation. However, bigots and racists are writing laws against human beings, whether in bathrooms or disenfranchising them at the voting booth. They are not equal ideologies and should not be treated with equal measure.

And Lincoln said that because he wasn't an idiot. Telling half the country to go screw itself immediately after the Civil War would have immediately restarted the war.

that's what the flag means to you and it fills you with hate, that you give a worthless piece of colored cloth (it could be any flag, or even what it represents to you or the one who displays it) so much power that you would call another American "Ignorant piece of shit racist" - which is hateful and slander. That you will go through great lengths to name call someone else because they chose to display their freedom to do so. [It is indeed their freedom to do so. This freedom does not come with a criticism-blocker.] It is the same thing that other groups feel about something you do (I don't know what that is, but there is something that you do that offends other people) [I'll give you an example: pointing out they're wrong.] that other people will name call you, put you down, and stop you from being who you are. It doesn't matter that they are a piece of shit racist or not, they are exercising their freedom, probably just to get a rise out of you and let you know that you are separate from them. History lessons aside, because they don't matter. [Angry face emoji.] It is all the same to me, there are things I cherish, things I love personally, and things I'm proud to display - none of it should even be a thought to you, not hate not, even love, your opinion doesn't matter nor is it the reason for the things I love. I personally don't care about the Battle Flag of Virginia - it means nothing to me. I'm also not gay, so the Rainbow Flag means nothing to me personally. I'm not a woman I will never have to make the choice to have an abortion or keep the baby. Why would I care or even give a second though about something that is none of my business. [Ten angry face emojis.] what I do care about is Freedom, because if you take away one, you take away all and then no one is Free. that is what matters to me and I will fight to my death if needed to protect everyone's freedom of choice. if that is something you don't care about, another person's freedom, then why would get upset when they tell you, they wont serve you, help you, or treat you with respect or like a decent human being? because when you point a finger at some and call them an ignorant piece of shit - you have 3 other fingers pointing back at you calling you the same.

It is not what the flag means "to me." It is literally what the flag means. Next, we’ll debate on what your definition of “is” is.

It does not fill me with hate. You’re confusing me with the people who display the literally traitorous flag that literally stands for hate.

Pointing out that someone is ignorant for displaying a flag with pride that is literally traitorous and literally stands for hate is not hateful on my part, it is simple fact. It is also not slander, since it is the unmitigated truth.

I have not gone through great lengths to do anything. I have pointed out the simple unmitigated truth.

It is not about “hurt feelings” over “something that offends me.” Stop repeating that nonsense. It is about the simple unmitigated truth that the flag is literally the flag of traitors to the USA and literally stands for hate, bigotry and intolerance. My feelings have absolutely nothing to do with it.

If “being who you are” is tied to a traitorous flag that stands for hate, bigotry and intolerance, then you are, by definition, an ignorant, bigoted, racist piece of shit. That has nothing to do with my feelings.

“History lessons aside, because they don’t matter.” What? No. It is specifically about history and the literal meaning of this hate-based flag, which is taught by history. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” ~George Santayana

It’s all the same to you? Having a problem with tying black people up and keeping them as farm labor animals and whipping them to death is the same to you as having a problem with two people who have the same body parts falling in love and marrying? No. Everything is not the fucking shiny happy kumbaya same.

You’re not a woman and you’re not gay. Fabulous. But if being intolerant of hate and bigotry is none of your business, then you are part of the problem. If you don’t care about other peoples’ struggles, then you are part of the problem. If you ignore people in pain, then you are part of the problem.

What you are arguing for is not “freedom.” What you are arguing for is “tolerance of intolerance.” Laws against gay people marrying? Not my problem. I’m tolerant of that. Laws against minorities voting? Not my problem. I’m tolerant of that. Laws against women’s health care? Not my problem. I’m tolerant of that. “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” ~Edmund Burke, probably

Neo-Nazi groups in Germany use the “Southern” flag as their symbol of hate since the Swastika, as you know, is illegal in Germany, because it is now their hateful symbol of exterminating an entire race of people. But somehow, you think it’s only what the flag means “to me.”

“When you point your finger at someone, you have three fingers pointing back at you” is meaningless, nonsensical gibberish. It is only used by people who disagree with what you said in an illogical attempt to make them seem wrong. (And “we’ll agree to disagree” is just as meaningless and illogical.) It does not, however, change the fact that the Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee (rectangular) or the Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia (square) is literally a traitorous flag that stands for hate and bigotry and intolerance. And if you fly it, you are either ignorant of its historical and modern meaning or you DO know and are a bigoted piece of shit, which then your heritage IS hate. And you’re ignorant to boot.

But this is about me and my feelings, I guess, so none of these facts matter.

the piece of cloth, only has the meaning you give it - what it means to me, is a cool symbol of the Dukes of Hazard, which I think is as far from slavery and hate as you can get. So it IS what it means to you. Same thing with the German Flag, in India that symbol means peace and prosperity. You give thing the meaning, what someone else does with it is basically none of your business.

Skipping the part where you ignore when I point out the fact that doing nothing to help the helpless is part of the problem...

...The Stars and Bars flag was largely unused and forgotten after the Civil War. Only after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were passed, which gave civil and voting rights to black people, did Southern states resurrect their (incorrect) flag and begin to slap it all over their government buildings and houses and cars. They did so specifically because it literally represents the subjugation of black people and the war they fought for one reason: to keep black people as farm animals - because the racists were racist and hate black people and the racists were pissed off that they were being forced to treat black people as human beings. What better way to show your defiance of these new equal rights laws than to fly the flag that says you think niggers are 3/5 of a person? (The resurrection of that flag got kicked into high gear after the Equal Educational Opportunities Act of 1974.) That is unarguably the only meaning of the Stars and Bars flag. And that is why Neo-Nazis in Germany use it.

So, again, it's not what the flag means "to me." I had nothing to do with giving it its meaning. It is what the flag means.

But that's none of your business. You get your historical education from 70's TV shows. That must be why you give racists equal merit for their side of the argument and don't think you should be against it because you aren't black so it doesn't affect you.

And as for the swastika meaning peace and prosperity in India - yes, thousands of years before Hitler adopted it, the swastika originally meant peace and prosperity. And it is still used in Buddhism and Hinduism and other religions, not related to Hitler's twisted use.

Tell me, what was the original and only meaning ever of the Stars and Bars?

And for the record, the use of that flag in The Dukes of Hazzard doesn't bother me. It's one of my favorite shows.

If you found a store that still sell the battle flag of northern Virginia, also known as the Stars and Bars, [Notice how he keeps trying to sound intelligent by showing that he knows little details like it being the battle flag of northern Virginia, and "also known as the Stars and Bars" - which I've already said.] it was probably made in china, like most flags are. When you can see it as just a piece of colored cloth, you realize that that piece of cloth, doesn't have a history, it doesn't hate,or want to enslave you. It's not the symbol of segregation or the Jim Crow laws. it really has no meaning, except what you give it. An idiot with a gun, can have the Rainbow Flag or the My Little Pony Flag in their facebook profile, before they kill a bunch of people. It doesn't make those flags anymore the symbol of hate than it does someone with the WW2 German Flag. Mel Brooks made a great play called the Producers and it's about how when the use of everything we hate, becomes a success, but a lot overlooks the fact that both the movie and the play has the Nazi Flag all over it. Because Mel Brooks used the Nazi Flag doesn't make him an ignorant bigoted piece of shit racist. [Oh, for fuck's sake.] These symbol only have the meaning that we give them, so here's a thought: Stop giving them meaning, so people do fly the confederate flag, [I thought it was the "battle flag of northern Virginia?" Actually, it isn't.] to show the symbol as hatred, rebellion, or separation. If we tell them that it doesn't mean that to us, and you can fly it anywhere you like as long as you don't break the law - these people will STOP using it and what ever symbol they use next, we should allow them and accept it, because it is not the symbol, it is the person who uses (or they actually do, hiding behind the symbol) that matters. When they recalled the Dukes of Hazard's Charger Model, so they could remove the Stars and Bars from it, I was actually upset. Not for the removal, because it mean that we are no longer free to express ourselves how ever we see fit. That there is a power controlling what we are free to do. If I accept this, then I have to accept, which bathroom I can use, the gender of the person I marry, the god I pray to, and what clothes I can wear. Everything that I am free to do, does offend someone somewhere, which means that eventually they will come for something I do care about and I must accept that just as I must accept that Confederate War Memorials can't fly a certain flag or a silly TV show's toys can't look like what it looks like on the show. Women died because they chose to break the law. Gay people hid in the closet because they were afraid they would lose their job, family, and friends. I have to allow the things I don't like in with the things I want to protect. Freedom is for everyone and there should never be an exception, ever! I don't care if someone wants to use the ISIL Flag outside their house. I will protect their right to do so.


That was a whole bunch of meaningless nonsense.

The country where the flag is manufactured is irrelevant.

It does have a history.
It stands for hate.
It is the symbol of slavery.

And only if the flag is square in shape is it the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. When it is rectangular, it’s the Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee. Both are known as the Stars and Bars. Since you want specifics.

No one can give it a meaning they want. It has an actual specific meaning.

What an idiot with a gun does is irrelevant to the rainbow flag - which also has a specific meaning. What an idiot with a gun does is irrelevant to a My Little Pony flag - which would stand for My Little Pony. Those flags are not the specific flags of hate and bigotry like the Stars and Bars specifically is. You simply having something doesn’t mean it is tied to something else about you. Jeffrey Dahmer owned a house. That doesn’t mean everyone who owns a house murders and eats young gay men and buries their remains in the backyard. Your logic lacks logic.

Mel Brooks was using Hitler and the Nazi flag for satire. He wasn’t proudly displaying it as his heritage. Again, your twisting of reality to try and fit your mission statement lacks the remotest bit of logic.

Here’s a thought: I didn’t give the flag its meaning. It already has one. The entirety of your argument is based on ignoring this one and only fact of the issue. Every irrelevant, unrelated factoid you add is obfuscation of this fact.

You are free to express yourself however you wish. The flag is not illegal. It’s just a simple fact that more people are understanding it is only a symbol of hate and intolerance and should not represent government institutions.

Bathrooms? Gender of the person you can marry? God you pray to? Clothes you can wear? Holyfuckingshit. What are you even talking about? None of those things have anything to do with the actual, literal meaning of the racist, bigoted Stars and Bars flag. You are juxtaposing big government, civil rights-interfering laws that Republicans write with a flag that has a specific symbolic meaning - yet is not illegal. Just more obfuscation.

Obfuscation: This is not about random things that can offend anyone. Yes, people are idiots and get offended easily. This is not about those idiots. This is about a specific thing that has a specific meaning.

And more obfuscation. This is not about women dying who chose to break the law. This is not about gay people hiding in the closet. You are adding many irrelevant issues to try and win an argument that does not exist. It is not an opinion what the Stars and Bars stands for. You don’t get to ascribe whatever meaning you wish to an object that does have a specific meaning.

Wow. ISIL. In a tremendous effort to defend your nonsense, you just bent over so far backward that you just shoved your head firmly up your ass by claiming to support terrorism. You’re not even content with just ignoring atrocities that don’t concern you. You will actually defend them. Congratulations. [Too far? I don't think so.]

Since nothing has any meaning other than what we ascribe to it, what do you do when you see one of these…

Whatever you think this means, regarding your argument, I think you should just do what its traditional meaning commands.

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He blocked me. I guess I wasn't free to express my feelings about him. Apparently all those women in closets praying to Sekhmet with their My Little Pony flags died for nothing.

Here’s something that wouldn’t have affected him, so he wouldn’t give it a second thought - yet apparently would defend the slave-owners’ freedom to own black people.

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