Tuesday, February 11, 2014

Chris Christie Was Here

I’ll never understand parents that bestow their children with first names similar to their surnames.

I wonder why people feel the need to make up stories about all the Obama “scandals,” when he hasn’t done anything wrong, but feel the need to go out of their way to give NJ Governor Chris Christie “the benefit of the doubt” when he’s obviously guilty as fuck.

Ha Ha! No, I don’t. They’re called Republicans.

This discussion is pretty damn entertaining. And holy shit does it fly off on wild, non-Chris Christie tangents. I tried to keep it on track, but I also kept proving them wrong, so they had to keep changing the subject.


And this is our corruption free governor lol

Bill Mancuso
So, apparently Christy wasn't being facetious when he said he was dressed as a DOT worker and putting cones out.

Did they find out for sure? What was the outcome? In other words did they prove it? [Laying the groundwork for the “Christie is innocent until proven guilty” argument. Which would be perfectly fine if it also applied to Democrats, who seem to be automatically guilty. Stay tuned.]

Come on, this guy runs such a tight ship. I find it impossible that he knew nothing about this. [That’s true. It is common knowledge that Christie has always known about everything that goes on in NJ. Except this time, right? ABC News: Chris Christie's staff linked to George Washington Bridge closure via emails (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ]

I never said that. I asked if they proved it for sure yet?

I didn't mean it to sound that way, sorry.

Bill Mancuso
Just a matter of time. Investigators are just getting all their ducks in a row for the prosecution.

[There's a reason Alan immediately backed down and I kept my answer short and non-antagonistic. Stay tuned.]

He said, she said, facts prove ??????

I think he already said he knew about it. [Excuse #1: Sowing doubt.] He said he was under the impression they were having a traffic study, nothing more. [Excuse #2: Repetition of debunked lie.] Also, your mayor from Hoboken was already caught not being truthful under oath. [Shifting the blame. Notice no proof is needed.] We will see how this turns out. Now put some of that energy New Jersey in about finding out how 4 Americans were murdered in Benghazi [You knew Benghazi was coming, right?] and a border guard has still not been accounted for after all these years. [Changing the topic by use of straw man argument.] After all they died. They were someone!s sons. [Pulling at heart-strings of unrelated topic to cement diversionary topic in place.] I bet this Christie thing may be solved first. [Mistakenly redirect topic back to original topic after all that hard work was put in.]

[Also, I never understood this line of thought: “We can’t have an investigation into incident #2 until incident #1 is solved because America is incapable of holding two investigations at the same time.”]

**  **

**  **
[Hey, I tried.]
Bill Mancuso
Christie still denies he knew anything.

There was no traffic study according to every official. By the time Christie said it, it was already known to be a lie for cover-up purposes.

The last Hoboken Mayor, Peter Cammarano was guilty of corruption, not the current one, Dawn Zimmer. [This is not about Bridgegate. This incident of corruption is about Christie holding back Hurricane Sandy relief funds from Hoboken unless Mayor Zimmer awarded Christie’s buddies some prime land for development. Because he’s got the ability to have more than one corrupt scheme going on at the same time. He’s a multi-tasker.]

And Christie fired his Deputy Chief of Staff, Bridget Kelly for ordering the shutdown, but says he didn't ask her why she did it. There are only two possible reasons for not asking - he's completely inept as a leader, or he's maneuvered a 'plausible deniability' defense for a crime he knew about.

Aside from Benghazi having nothing to do with Bridgegate, there are already a half dozen reports laying out exactly how 4 Americans were killed there. Here's the latest on that non-scandal:

And by 'border guard' if you mean the Fast & Furious thing, that non-scandal was solved 2 years ago.

Since we're bringing up unrelated events, what about the 241 Americans killed in Beirut when Reagan told them they couldn't have any ammunition? What about the 109 people killed in the 13 Embassy attacks during GW Bush's presidency that McCain and Graham kept going on TV and saying there was no need for investigations?

Getting back to Bridgegate, I find it highly suspect that a man who knew everything that was going on at all times in his state, didn't hear about the bridge thing until 3 months after I and the rest of the country did. Not to mention everyone in his office knew about it - even ordered it to happen.

But yes, there's no proof. That's why there's an ongoing investigation. Although he's been caught lying about multiple issues so far, nothing hard about the bridge yet.


Your facts are wrong about Benghazi. [Meaning: I disagree with the facts about Benghazi, so I’m going to ignore them and keep repeating what they say on FOX “News.”] The mother of Smith was just on TV crying the other day because she has no answers. If that were my son I would be banging on the WH door every day. I think things are much more serious when someone dies. [Except when Republicans are in charge, then it’s no big deal.] The border guard was killed with the weapons that Holder gave to the cartels. [said FOX “News.” I didn't read that article you posted because I don't want my biased opinion contradicted.] These are current situations under the current administration. [Unlike the bridge closure which happened five months ago. Who can even really remember anything about that?] What about the closed own of the government when the park rangers were told to close the parks and make it miserable for everyone. [Obama: “Um… I want you to, um, close the parks. Um, I want to make everyone, um, miserable.”] These are all current situations. Now we focus all our attention on a highway closing. [We can’t concentrate on all our fake, manufactured scandals against Obama AND a real one against Christie, so I suggest we forget the real one and keep going after the Kenyan. It’s exhausting automatically repeating these fake scandals like Pavlov’s dog.] It's just a way to stop Christie from running fork president because they fear him. The current mayor of Hoboken, is the one that lied. BTW did Corzine ever find the billion dollars that he lost? [By the way, what the fuck does Corzine have to do with shutting the bridge? Or anything else you keep talking about?]

**  **

**  **

Let's face it Jersey has always been corrupt. But you bet they have watched every move Christie has made and this is the best they can do and it isnt even proven yet. Really????. I'm not a fan of Christie but i hate how he's accused of bullying when I've seen much worse by this administration. [I hate Christie because he shook Obama’s hand but he’s a Republican, so I’ll defend him in this instance.]

NJ=Blue State that elected a Republican Governor. How would he have gotten re-elected if there were so many other situations. With all the left liberals against him, it could never have happened unless they like what he has done with the state thus far. I think NJ is tired of paying high taxes [So they voted for him because he raised them higher?] and I know that's why I would never move back there. I think you both were in maybe 3rd grade when Reagan was president. Know that is really going back far and your memory of Reagan unique. [I have no facts to back the bullshit I’m Pavlovianly repeating, so I’ll just try to discredit you personally with an ad hominem attack. “You’re too young to know anything. And as a Republican who hates education, I know there’s no way you can possibly learn anything about history. Those are the principles that the Founding Fathers built this country on.] The attacks under GW Bush were answered for [When, exactly?] and also by terrorists and not because of a video. Benghazi pleaded for help and got none and was lied about it NOT being a terrorist attack. They also were not soldiers like the previous embassy attacks. [And how many non sequitur talking points can you cram into one sentence? According to the report, terrorists planned an attack, but were also angered by the video. Also, Obama said it was a terrorist attack first thing in the morning after the attacks. Ignoring that fact doesn’t make it go away. Soldiers or not soldiers is irrelevant. The parameters seem to change depending on which Party is in charge at the time.]

**  **

**  **

[Seriously, I tried.]
Bill Mancuso
They are not "my" facts about Benghazi. They are facts about Benghazi. The mother's questions were answered. In several reports. Ignoring them doesn't make them "not answered." Read the article. [She never did. It would contradict her FOX “News” Clockwork Orange-esque reconditioning.]

Holder didn't give guns to cartels. Read the article. [She never did. See comment above.]

Republicans happily took credit for voting to shut down the government against everyone's wishes.

[Guess which two links were just ignored?]

Shutting down the government includes federal parks. Then, just like the hypocrites they are, Republicans showed up at the parks they shut down and yelled at the park rangers who were volunteering their time to do their duty. Congressman Randy Neugebauer (R-Texas) even had an ethics complaint filed against him for his actions.


And - while the Republicans were the ones showing up at the parks to use for political gain, they were saying they didn't want Democrats to use the parks as a tool for political gain. [Vets weren’t happy about it. OTB: Veterans Didn’t Like Being Used As Republican Political Props Yesterday ]

It is a fact that Chris Christie, or at the very least, his office, actually shut down the busiest bridge in the world. On the anniversary of September 11th. Not only did that affect millions of people going to work and school for days, but emergency services and Homeland Security as well. And it is a fact no one knows why. That's a real scandal that actually, for a verifiable fact, exists in the real world, which needs to be investigated. Democrats weren't afraid of Christie. He was never going to be nominated to run for president by the Republican Party anyway. He shook Obama's hand, remember? Beside that, the vast majority of Republicans in the South never liked Republicans from the North. And after the Romney debacle, they'll not even consider one from the North again for many many decades. [Ignored.]

Current Hoboken Mayor Zimmer has not lied about anything. That has never even been reported anywhere, so I don't know why you keep saying that. You demand proof for Christie, but an allegation that you made up about Zimmer is OK? Sounds like your support for Christie is just because he's a Republican and you're vilifying Zimmer because she's a Democrat - not based on what's actually happening.

What does Corzine have to do with anything? (Not that Benghazi or Fast & Furious or National Parks have anything to do with Bridgegate either.)

Yes, Jersey is cartoonishly corrupt. Both Parties have been keeping up their end. Except for Chris Christie?

Christie is being accused of bullying simply because he has made a documented career of bullying.

What are the "worse things" that you have seen by the Obama administration? And I mean real things, not things they made up on FOX "News." [Never answered. But you knew that already, didn't you?]

**  **

**  **

Christie got elected by making a lot of back room deals with Mayors. This has been documented. Also, the Democrats didn't back their candidate. It's odd to me that so many people would vote him back into office while also voting for many of the things he was against. [Minimum wage hike, marriage equality, abortion rights...] I can't explain that other than he is a bigger-than-life cartoonish celebrity that they thought helped them during Sandy. [Notice I wrote "thought."]

You want to know what he's done with the state thus far? He raised NJ taxes. 19% property tax increase, now at a record high. He spent $123 million more in 2012 than revenues collected - only balancing the budget after raiding the state surplus fund. Cut school funding by $1.5 billion & handed out $2.1 billion to corporations - higher than the entire past 10 years. Spent $24 million in NJ tax dollars on a separate election two weeks prior to the regular election just to keep Cory Booker-voting Democrats away from his re-election. Largest transit fare hike in NJ history - partly to help pay for the ARC tunnel, which he cancelled, claiming NJ couldn't afford it, which was a lie because the Fed was going to cover most of the cost and NY was going to cover the bulk of the rest. It would have been the largest job creation project in America, but now he has that fake "fiscal responsibility" tag that Republicans pretend to value. And he's used the money from the increased tolls that was supposed to go to the ARC tunnel and used it for infrastructure spending since he drained the budget - which, "coincidentally," his brother profited from. Vetoed tax increases for millionaires. Gave Panasonic $102 million in tax breaks to only create 200 jobs over 10 years – wow, 20 jobs a year. Awarded a no-bid contract to politically connected AshBritt Inc, for Sandy clean-up, costing taxpayers millions more - which is currently under federal investigation. NJ poverty rate is at a 52-year high. Not counting federal stimulus, Christie needed more fund-raids and fiscal gimmicks to balance the budget than Corzine - which he could have prevented by simply not cutting taxes for millionaires. NJ unemployment rate higher than national average and job growth slower than neighboring states and the national average. I pay attention to what is done, not said. Corzine sucked. Christie is just as bad. He gives away free millions in hand-outs to corporations and reduces their taxes, while screwing the people by raising their taxes. Just like Republicans do. [Ignored. Seeing a pattern? I hope you noticed it years ago.]

My knowledge of Reagan and what happened to the 241 soldiers in Beirut is just fine. 

The attacks during the Bush administration were never answered for. My point is, 13 (actually more) embassies were attacked, resulting in 109 deaths and John McCain and Lindsey Graham went on TV every time and said there was no need for investigations because “these things happen.” There was no Republican outrage. Apparently, it's not more serious when someone dies if Republicans are in command. Four people were killed in One attack under the Obama administration and Republicans haven't shut up since. Investigations have been going on continually since it happened and a half dozen reports have come out - all concluding that there was no scandal or cover-up but Republicans keep wasting taxpayer money with more and more and more investigations. They even put out fake emails at one point. Republicans have manufactured evidence on multiple occasions for all the fake scandals they keep inventing. No one is saying what happened in Benghazi wasn't terrible. Mistakes were made. But Obama didn't kill those Americans. There were no lies. And there was no cover-up. And no scandal.

Plus, Benghazi still has nothing to do with Bridgegate.

**  **

[I wonder if FOX "News" informed their viewers of this information? Ha ha.]
**  **

And you can add this to Christie's ever-increasing list of corruption:

And this too, while we’re at it:

[Do I need to tell you these articles were duly ignored, as well?]

Breezing through your long sermon, [Maybe you should have actually read it instead of just breezed through it.] I can see that you really don't understand politics [ad hominem] and as I said before Beruit was wartime involving soldiers not civilians that were begging for help. [Irrelevant distinction.] You are so busy watching the hate channel MSNBC [So hateful, it hurts.] and getting comedian reports such as Jon Stewart [I don’t remember bringing up MSNBC or Jon Stewart, so I don’t know – oh, I don’t believe the bullshit she’s repeating, so she thinks I’m a Liberal. Right.] that I think you aren't getting the full stories. [As reported by FOX “News.”] [I know she hasn’t mentioned FOX here, so I seem like a hypocrite, but she has in past conversations said to watch FOX to get the truth that the “liberal main stream media” won’t tell you.]

**  **

**  **

Once again, Jersey liked something for a 2 term in a democratic state,. [Ignored once again, back room deals, cartoonish celebrity.] Shame on brushing Benghazi under the carpet with parents crying for information. Corzine was referenced because it just proves the corruption in NJ that still is not as bad as Chicago. Mayor Zimmer has lied under oath about not keeping records twice while now she said she has proof by a journal. She was asked twice under oath and said she had nothing....now she has something and has no comment. Hillary has said herself that Benghazi was her biggest regret. The reason for the Hillary/Benghazi reference is because this is to put Hillary in a better light. [?] You need to watch all the news stations as I do. [No, you don’t. FOX, Breitbart, Newsmax and Glenn Beck don’t count as ‘multiple sources.’] Now even Stewart is making fun of the left. He also thought Christie's mess was no big deal but I don't take him seriously as he has said he is a comedian. [I'm going to use him as an example and discredit him in the same sentence because I can't think for myself and I'm just repeating as many FOX talking points as I can remember.] However, your mind is made up from the blogs that you read [Yes, I get my information from bloggers (like me). You caught me. The facts that you disagree with are now all discredited.] so no sense trying to change it. You, without proof, have already convicted Christie. He's entitled to his day in court. People I know in Jersey are happy with Christie. They're happy someone is doing something. [Doing something? He’s doing something, alright. I guess you missed that giant, yet partial, list of things he’s done that I wrote.] Worry more about the NSA, IRS, the Healthcare, EPA, etc., that never apologize and continue to bully. I don't know where you are coming from but in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. I'll give you the last word [#1.] because I can see how important that is to you and how you are hell bent on hating Christie with no real proof. Like I said, I'm not a Christie fan but he is innocent until they have real proof.

**  **

**  **
[I totally stopped trying.]
Bill Mancuso
I understand politics. Quite well, in fact.

Beirut involved Reagan sending soldiers to a warzone and telling them they couldn't use ammunition because they were on a peace-keeping mission, resulting in 241 American deaths. Then he invaded Grenada in retaliation.

I did in no way, shape or form, "brush Benghazi under the carpet." I pointed out the fact that all the questions were answered. I cannot help it if people wish to ignore those facts in order to keep trying to manufacture a scandal/conspiracy against Obama since there is no actual scandal/conspiracy.

Now we have involved Chicago? I can't figure how any of this extraneous stuff has to do with Christie. [Obama is from Chicago, moron. That's where Chicago-style politics comes from. And Chicago Obama is worse than NJ Christie. You're so stupid, how can I believe anything you say?]

Mayor Zimmer has not lied at any time. They just keep saying she has on FOX "News" and Breitbart.com. Why do you insist repeatedly that Christie have his day in court, but Mayor Zimmer is already guilty and convicted because FOX "News" invented information that doesn't even remotely exist? Mayor Zimmer has not had her day in court, but she is guilty? And Zimmer was instructed not to speak by the Feds because of the ongoing Federal investigation into Christie.

Hillary/Benghazi has nothing to do with Christie's corruption and a half dozen reports have already explained what happened there. Ignoring that fact doesn't make it go away. She took responsibility because she's a competent leader. Obama also took responsibility. Maybe if Republicans hadn't cut almost a half billion dollars out of embassy security funds prior to Benghazi, to Hillary's protests, this could have ended up differently. And since Benghazi, Republicans have further voted to cut embassy security funding. That's how concerned Republicans are about embassy security.

Stewart makes fun of the left all the time. If you want to know what he's doing, you should actually watch him instead of listening to what the right tells you he does. And he certainly did think closing down the GW Bridge for no reason was a big deal.

I have in no way, shape or form, already convicted Christie. You can tell because of my previous statement: "But yes, there's no proof. That's why there's an ongoing investigation. Although he's been caught lying about multiple issues so far, nothing hard about the bridge yet." I have merely pointed out that he has, on multiple occasions, been caught lying, bullying and allegedly misappropriating Sandy funds. It hasn't been proven, but every bit of the evidence certainly seems to point in one direction.

The NSA scandal was first reported in 2006 under the Bush administration. It was called The Patriot Act. Here's an article from 5/11/06:

Here's another from 11/14/06:

[I'm not trying to take the heat off Obama. He fucking expanded this program and then said, "What? Who me? I'm unhappy this is happening." I'm just pointing out he didn't start it and Republicans used to LOVE the NSA spying program under Bush. 

In the heat of furious typing, I kind of flubbed the point that Republicans are hypocritical stumps. It's ok, though. She ignored it all anyway.]

There is literally no IRS scandal. It's a complete fiction invented by right-wing media. Every single right-wing group that applied, received their 501(c)(4) tax exempt status. Only one liberal organization, Emerge America, was denied that status.

How is that a scandal? Literally nothing happened.

Except to liberals.

Yes, how dare Obama try to get affordable healthcare to people. He should give them guns with which to defend their health instead.

By the way, I'm enjoying my now affordable health care that I was able to afford (a platinum plan, even) thanks to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, aka "Obamacare." I was even able to tack on a dental plan, it was so affordable. And this is in spite of my Republican Governor who has tried very hard to prevent me from having health care by not implementing a state exchange. I had to go through the federal exchange. He just wanted me to die poor, I guess. And the poorest and senior citizens are still not getting health care because Governor Deal refused the Medicare & Medicaid expansions.

I'm not sure what the EPA scandal is other than not regulating and inspecting enough leaking chemical storage plants and exploding fertilizer plants.

Who never apologizes? Obama? How can that be if he went on an "apology tour?" Republicans need to get their rhetoric straight. It's like when they said hated America because he followed Reverend Wright for 20 years, but also demand that he's a Muslim. He's Christian and Muslim? Is that a new religion? Chruslim? Mustian?

Who is Obama bullying? Or do you mean Obama is being bullied by Republicans, resulting in their lowest approval rate ever? They, for a fact, conspired against the President of the United States of America to prevent him from accomplishing anything. That is a literal conspiracy. And un-American. And traitorous.

I am not hell-bent on hating Christie. I just follow the facts.

Thank you for giving me the last word. I enjoyed presenting even more facts to support my case against all the things that have nothing to do with Chris Christie. This concludes tonight’s sermon.

You must have me confused with my dear nephew. [What the fuck?] I have nothing to say about your nightly sermons. [You sure seemed to say a lot.] We will see how things turn out. If Christie is wrong, shame on him, if he is found innocent, shame on the left. [Yes, the Left is mounting a witch-hunt against Christie. The Right simply adores him. Oooh, pinch his cheeks!] My advice, stop hating so much and have an open mind. [Pretty sure everything I said was based not on hate but on facts, which I need an open mind to accept (unlike some people around here who shall remain nameless).] BTW, I'm an independent [who bases all my beliefs on what Sean Hannity tells me to believe. You obviously (painfully) are not.] and my husband ran on a democratic ticket in Jersey many years ago [Dinnertime conversation must be fun.] and nothing will ever convince me that you ever watched FOX News. [I used to, but since nothing they ever say is remotely anchored in reality, I would consider it a severe waste of time to do so now. However, I do know about the lies they say because it's reported all the time. But I also don’t remember trying to convince you I watch FOX “News,” so, uh… what?] I'm not brain washed into how I think. [You have been repeating nothing but 100% misinformation and debunked conspiracy theories that only exists on Bullshit Mountain. You are, indeed, brainwashed.] This post was about convicting Christie without a trial....I will repeat, innocent until proven guilty. [Then why did YOU bring up about 15 unrelated topics?....I will repeat, “But yes, there's no proof. That's why there's an ongoing investigation. Although he's been caught lying about multiple issues so far, nothing hard about the bridge yet." You may ignore it yet again if you wish. Just like every other bit of factual information I have presented for you, the jury.] Jersey has seen much worse. [What does that have to do with anything? I mean, other than to try and take the heat off Christie. Something shouldn’t be investigated because a worse thing happened somewhere else? Oh, right. I forgot. America isn’t capable of having two investigations going at the same time. You’re right, we should look into the worse one instead. Which, incidentally, would be Bridgegate since it's an actual incident.] I gave you this much more for my respect for my nephew. [More fucking what? Goddamn made-up bullshit? Uh, thank you?] Now you can continue your last sermon. [Nah. You pretty much ended that when you brought up your nephew for no motherfucking reason.] I won't comment. [#2. Where have I heard that before?]

[48 minutes later…]
.....sorry, one question for you......please tell me how much are your monthly payments and deductible for Obamacare? Just curious. [$300mo. $1,000ded. No subsidies.]

Bill Mancuso
Don't know what the hell invoking the memory of my dead best friend has to do with Christie, Benghazi or anything else. Confusing you with him? That doesn't even make any sense except for one reason only: to provide you with an excuse to bring him up.

Good day.

You never answered my question as to what the cost was for your Obamacare as far as deductible and monthly cost. My guess would be that you probably didn't mention the costs because you expect everyone to pay for your healthcare and that's why you were uninsured and are so defensive and hateful of anyone that's not going to take care of you. [What the fucking bat-shit insane fuck does any of that mean? Trying to randomly shoehorn Bill O’Reilly talking points into discussions really doesn’t help. It sure is easier than thinking for yourself, but it doesn’t help.] You seem able bodied enough to have paid for your own healthcare before Obamacare. Wonder why you needed everyone else to pay for it? [When did I say anything even remotely like that? That must be an O’Reilly-conditioned response to the word “Obamacare.” Pavlov would be proud.] Also, he is my nephew and he was mentioned because the only reason I wasted this much time on you was out of respect for him because you were his friend, and for that reason only, I would never give you this much of my time. I don't need an excuse to mention my nephew or godchild to you or anyone else. I don't expect an answer to this question because I think we both know the answers. So done with this conversation. [#3.] Have a nice evening. [Let's not pretend you wouldn't have stuck in here as long as it took to find some point that I was wrong on. I was presenting facts. You just needed to be right.]

Bill Mancuso
The things you are saying about health insurance are [fucking] insanely uninformed. No one, at any point, has ever paid for my health insurance. I pay for my health insurance. The fact that I am paying for it literally means I am the person paying for it, not "everyone else." Me purchasing insurance from a corporation is the epitome of capitalism and has absolutely not a thing to do with "everyone else paying for it" socialism. But keep unthinkingly repeating those dog-whistle phrases you've been conditioned to blurt out by FOX "Independent News." It relieves you of the burden of thinking for yourself.

To be clear, the ACA, or "Obamacare," is a law, not a health insurer. This law protects people from being screwed by insurance corporations. You still must purchase your insurance from a corporation. That is capitalism. Nobody "else" pays for your insurance.

Do you mean to say you normally only speak to people who agree with you - unless some outside force such as the respect of a nephew irrelevant to the conversation compels you to do otherwise?

And this is the third time you have been done with this conversation. What am I supposed to believe?

[Shockingly… back for #4.]
Done - this dead horse has been beaten to death and it ain't getting up. No logic whatsoever talking to someone that hates so much [What is this ‘hate’ thing about? That nonsensical claim doesn’t negate any of the facts you wish to ignore. Also, why do you keep coming back to beat this dead horse after repeatedly saying you’re done?]

Obamacare = subsidy paid by tax payers making it affordable. [True. This is a problem… because… ?]

[Hey, #6. Who’da thunk it?]
This was in response to my other relative's post, Alan, it had nothing to do with you. You injected yourself into it. [What fucking Bizarro World alternate universe does this woman come from, where Alan posts something, she responds to it, there's a long discussion about it, then claims he injected himself into someone else’s post? FOX “News” eats your brain.]

A good friend of mine who is an independent contractor who has to pay for his own health insurance seems to be getting better offers on the exchange. I know he's paying out about $300 per month and he did tell me it will benefit him, by how much.. I don't know. [I don’t know for sure, but I think he's talking about me. We spoke about this when I signed up in December and that describes my situation. Hah. Good one, Alan.] I feel that the exchanges will create better prices and more availability for people. [Which, they have.] I think it will work out in the end, just needs some tweaking. [Definitely true.] My biggest concern from the republicans, they did not put any alternative health care reform fixes on the table. [True. Well, except for $5,000 vouchers that will help fuck all.] All they did was put their energy into trying to repeal obama care, and tell everyone that the American people really don't want this crap. [True again.] Obama won a second election for a reason. [We have a winner! Actually, from what I understand, whenever Republicans win, that’s what the people wanted. Whenever Democrats win, it’s because they tricked the people somehow.]

[Before we go any further, let me explain the relationships here.
“Dear Nephew”……... my best friend of over 30 years, deceased
Alan………………......... his cousin & friend of mine for almost as long
Jolene………………….... their aunt, whom I do not know too well
Ben……………………...... Jolene’s son; Alan & Dear Nephew’s cousin
Bill Mancuso………..... asshole who refuses to just leave stupid people alone]

The exchanges and marketplace rates are relative to poverty level, family size, and other things. [True.] The exchanges work with subsidies. [True. So far so good.] Our taxes are paying for those subsidies. [Yes.] The poor get help, the middle class get screwed, and the rich are not affected. [Danger! Ship veering from course. Heading toward propaganda iceberg, dead ahead!] This is nothing more than a distribution of wealth scheme where the middle class are hit the hardest. [All hands! All hands to your posts! We have collision!] To answer the above question, Obama got reelected because he promises free things to people and the media paints a picture of the republicans as being racist women haters. [Man the lifeboats! Baseless propaganda-berg has torn a gash- no! It’s removed the entire hull of the ship! There is no integrity! To the lifebo-glub glub glub…] The only defense the democrats have when a republican makes any kind of point is the old "did you get that information from Faux News? or you are a racist" [How can someone who has already sunk to the bottom of the ocean still be talking?]

[He posted that article to prove the taxpayer subsidies, which is true. You really should read this. It points out all the things the Affordable Care Act does for us. I wish I posted it.]

**  **

**  **

Bill Mancuso
All of the middle class people I know who went through the exchanges (including myself) did not get screwed. I'm not eligible for any subsidies, yet my cost is very low. That's due to the competition the exchange created. And that includes part of my payment being an ACA tax. The places where poor people are getting screwed are in the Republican-controlled states where they refused to implement the Medicaid expansions. Our taxes were already paying for emergency rooms for all the people who couldn't afford health insurance. Why didn't you complain then about 100% subsidized health costs? Although yes, it is taxpayer subsidized, the ACA is designed to reduce that previous 100% taxpayer expense. Which, for a fact, it does. Somehow, funneling less taxes into health insurance costs is more upsetting to you. This is not rational thought.

The middle class is arguably hit the hardest, but not by the ACA. Try tax cuts and subsidies for rich people & corporations who pay no taxes, which far outweighs any taxes used for the poor & middle class.

At some point, I would like someone to give an example where Obama promised "free stuff" to anybody. Republicans love to claim Obama has promised "free stuff" to explain why they lost two elections to him, but fail to ever produce this mysterious "free stuff." They just keep blindly repeating the exact phrase, "free stuff" and expect me to think "free stuff" is proof of "free stuff."

Yes, the media are falsely painting Republicans as racists & women-haters. They've made up the whole thing. Luckily there are no quotes, legislative acts or protest signs that could prove differently. [Must I be so damn sarcastic?]


Regarding racism:

Regarding the anti-women platform:
[That was in the year period between March 2011 & April 2012. It's been 2 years since this article.]

Actually, I don't call it Faux News. I call it FOX "News."

Oh, and before I forget: Chris Christie.

[The following dozen or so posts (excepting Alan) are a wonderful collection of right-wing talking points. A fine example of how listening to FOX “News” repeat something over and over turns lies into “facts.” Repetition + One Information Source = Ignorance.]

I'm glad you know people that did well, including yourself. You must represent the majority. If any republican forced you to participate in an activity that is not a requirement of living in the country [Health insurance is not related to ‘living’?] (nor part of our constitution), [Like car insurance? Homeowner’s insurance?] you would probably be pissed. By the way, we are still paying 100% for illegals and the poor that are getting full subsidies. [Glub, glub.] I love how the Dems vilify the rich that are already paying the majority of the taxes. [Ho. Ly. Shit.] Those corporations employ most of the middle class so I doubt tax breaks are hurting the middle as much as you would like to think. Last time I checked, cell phones are free. [?]

From what I have read, the free "Obamaphone" [Oh, Ben was talking about “Obamaphones.” Don’t know why he didn’t say that. Just saying ‘phones are free’ sounds stupid. Not that the Obamaphone lie doesn’t sound stupid as well, but at least there would be some sort of context.] is part of the Lifeline program which was introduced in 1984. Basically they are giving out a cell phone in lieu of a land line because landlines are going by the wayside. [Someone’s paying attention.]

Then why do some people have 7 of them? It's still free. He wanted proof. [And I said Obama hands out free cell phones so that’s proof. Plus, I invented the idea that they all have 7 of them so poor people sound even worse. I’m glad he didn’t ask for proof on the amount of phones.]

[Actually, that's not fair. I don't know if he personally invented the "7 phones" idea. He may have gotten it from Sean Hannity.]

Have you seen an Obama phone? Let me tell you, it isn't an iPhone 5S or Galaxy 4S, it's a pos flip with 250 min and no internet.

[And #7.]
Alan.....why does anyone feel they are entitled to a phone. Our [immigrant] families came here and were given nothing and were able to raise families and worked to eat and live. They didn't have healthcare, food stamps, etc. [And were dirt poor, lived 15 to a one-bedroom shanty, half died in childbirth, were sickly and died at age 40.] it is getting way out of hand and people actually think they deserve all these things. Guess who's paying for it all? Unless you are sick and unable, you should work for what you get. It's a disgrace. There was free medical, it was called Medicaid. We have become a nanny country. What happens when the money runs out? [But I’m the one so full of hate. And while we’re on the subject, how about a little more reading… AI: Your Lack Of Insight And Compassion Make You Ugly ]

What is the percentage of people who have multiple obama phones? I bet a small percentage is scamming the system. [What would people (poor, rich, anywhere in between) need 7 phones for, anyway? Nobody has 7 cell phones. Ben is making shit up that doesn’t even make any sense – if you think about it.]

[Again. Not fair. Maybe Ben didn't personally make that shit up.]

It's all the free stuff Alan. We can't afford it and anyone that thinks it's OK should personally do without new cars and toys and pay for other people that don't want to work. [Who the fuck is paying for- Amazing how many unsubstantiated right-wing talking point dog-whistle buzz-words fit in an “independent” skull.] Isn't that the liberal way. [As told by FOX “News.”] Share your wealth. Everyone have the same. [Which perfectly explains the record-breaking corporate profits + high unemployment & increasing poverty rates. Wait…]

[What number are we up to now?]
Look around and see how much debt we are in as a country [that Bush & Reagan left us with]. [Trickle-down economics,] It's not working.

**  **

**  **

I think most of the problem is simply because there simply aren't any jobs. It's no longer the roaring Clinton 90's.

Who's fault is that? [Two massive tax cuts, two unpaid-for wars, and unpaid-for Medicare Part D are about 50% of US deficit and jobs began hemorrhaging in mid 2007 – but I forget who it was that was responsible for all of those. And I forget at the moment which Party has filibustered every single jobs bill proposed in congress for the past 5 years.] Our President never worked on it. [Survey says: X] He was busy working on Obamacare. Two years he had the house and senate and never worked on jobs. [Except for the dozen+ jobs bills that one of the Parties filibustered.] Now employers are laying off people because of Obamacare. [Survey says: XX] They are cutting hours so they don't have to cover them under Obamacare. [Right. Which makes the employers assholes, not Obama.]

And when posting articles, use sources that aren't left blogs. [Use only right blogs.]

There are no jobs because Dems are driving evil CEOs and corporations out of this country. [Survey says: XXX] How many companies that got grants opened their plants over seas. Unions are killing jobs too. [Survey says: XXXX] Let's face it, some people don't want to work because they get more for "free" than if they had to work. [How many X's can the survey give?]

[A post is missing from here.]

We should be getting rid of the IRS not making them stronger.

absolutely. The IRS has too much power.

[A post is missing from here.] 

Exactly Gomer. I was agreeing with you about the FAIR tax.

[You all remember Gomer, right? At some point he inserted himself into this discussion. You may recall that I can’t see his posts because he blocked me on Facebook. Because he’s fucking coward.]

[Also, I’m sure you’ve noticed by now that everything I prove wrong in this conversation is completely ignored and another Christie-unrelated topic is brought up to replace it. If you’ve been a somewhat regular reader of this blog, you may have noticed it is a common tactic of the right-wing.]

Bill Mancuso
Wow. I missed a lot. I'll address each factually inaccurate right-wing propaganda statement in the order in which they appear.

The mandate in the ACA is part of the original Republican version of the Act that was designed in 1988 by the Conservative think-tank, the Heritage Foundation - which was based on a proposal by Richard Nixon in 1974. The Republicans ran their plan as the free-market solution alternative against Hillarycare in 1993 and have been pushing it for 20 years. Mitt Romney implemented it in Massachusetts to high success and praise. Suddenly, Republicans call their free-market solution SOCIALISM because a Democrat will get credit for its success. They have been trying to sabotage it ever since, even wasting $60 million on pandering votes that were solely for donation-generating theatrics, since they know there's no chance of repealing it.

"Illegals" are not allowed to participate in the ACA. That is in the ACA law. You are repeating a right-wing lie.

The Dems do not vilify the rich. They want them to pay at least the same percent of their income as everyone else. Yes, the rich pay more in quantity, simply because they have more money. They pay (the ones that actually pay taxes, that is - 4,000 of the wealthiest Americans have their money in offshore accounts, paying no taxes, not to mention the 25 corporations {in 2012} that paid no taxes {which would have been $92Billion} but also get subsidies {which were $22Billion}, not to mention the $1.5Trillion corporations have parked in offshore accounts not doing a damn thing for America) far less of a percent of their income than the middle class & poor, which has effectively shifted the burden of taxes onto them. Tax breaks for the wealthy are hurting the economy, since the wealthy just keep that money and do not pump it back into the economy.

Alan is correct. "Obamaphones" are another lie. That program, which originated under the Reagan administration, involved the then only available land lines. The Bush administration updated it to include cellphones. That program is funded by telecommunications corporations through the nonprofit organization, Universal Service Administrative Company. Not one penny of it comes from taxes. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the Obama administration.

Nobody has 7 free phones. You are repeating a right-wing lie in order to shame and vilify poor people.

Nobody feels they are entitled to free phones. That is more right-wing "poor-shaming." Phones are a necessity of life. They are needed for emergency services and job connections. Families were paid an actual living wage back then. Right now, minimum wage is set for a 1968 economy. Two full-time jobs at minimum wage is still under the poverty level. Nobody thinks they deserve food stamps. People are forced to go on food stamps because they are paid nothing by ever-profiting corporations that pay little or no taxes. Corporations are right now enjoying a 50-year profit high. They have not created jobs. The wealth does not trickle down. It pours up. In fact, the reason Walmart pays so little, is because they know the government will pay their employees’ welfare. For another fact, just this week, Walmart lowered its quarterly profit forecast - specifically citing that the Republicans' cut to food stamps will cause the poor employees to have less money to spend.

We have not become a nanny state. Stop repeating unsubstantiated right-wing rhetoric. Corporations are paying employees shit, forcing them to need welfare.

Nobody "doesn't want to work." Republicans can't constantly blame Obama for there being no jobs (while they are the ones filibustering dozens of jobs bills proposed by Democrats) and simultaneously blame "lazy" people not working and wanting "free stuff." Republican create economic black holes and try to blame everyone else.

We are in debt as a country due to Republican over-spending and paying for nothing. In fact, Obama has cut the national deficit in half, contrary to right-wing lies. Reagan tripled the deficit. Clinton left us with a surplus. Bush blew through the surplus and managed to double the deficit.

And Democrats have been more profitable to the nation as a whole.

Again, Our president did work on jobs. Republicans filibustered every single bill. See above. Employers are laying off people and cutting hours because they are greedy assholes. It has nothing to do with Obamacare. They are just blaming Obamacare to hide the fact that they are greedy assholes. For an example, that Papa John's asshole raised pizza prices, cut employees' pay, cut employees' hours, and increased the delivery fee - all well before the election and blamed it on Obama just to hide the fact that he's a greedy asshole.

I didn't realize photographs, direct quotes and legislative acts reported from legitimate news sources would A.) be considered "left blogs" and B.) somehow not be a fact depending where that fact was given. And do you really think right-wing media is going to report all that right-wing racism and anti-woman legislation? I guess if Hannity didn't report it, then it didn't happen.

Democrats are not driving CEO's out of this country. How could that be if corporations have been enjoying 50-year record-breaking profits? Stop repeating easily debunked right-wing rhetoric. Aside from that fact, Obama has proposed cutting taxes for corporations that brought jobs back to America from overseas - Republicans filibustered it. Obama has proposed tax increases for corporations that shipped jobs overseas - Republicans filibustered it.

Unions are not killing jobs. Unions protect workers. Republicans are busting unions in order to even further decrease worker pay and protect corporate profits, which is directly contributing to the increased poverty rate. 'Republican-run, "right-to-work" states tend to have lower average wages, spend less on education, have higher worker fatality rates and have lower standards of living.'

**  **

**  **
People don't get more for "free" than working. And again, nobody doesn't want to work. Yeah, that $500 per month welfare check is high livin.'

The IRS has the smallest amount of employees and an ever-decreasing budget. Not to mention that the corporations want tax code this complicated so they can take advantage of all the breaks, loopholes and subsidies. That’s why the corporations wrote them to be so complicated in the first place. What, you think poor people have a say in how tax law is written? [I found it laughable during the last Presidential election every time a Republican, like TX Governor Rick Perry, would hold up a postcard prop and say they were going to simplify the tax code so much, it could fit on a postcard. Right.]

By "Gomer" (originally his actual first name) I assume you mean Gomer (originally his actual first and last names). I can't see his posts because he blocked me a couple years ago. [The brave, manly-man that he is. So confident in his assertions.] However, as far as the "FAIR" Tax nonsense goes, there is a reason no country has ever tried a retail sales tax - it effectively shifts the burden of taxes off of the wealthy and onto the middle class and poor - which is why Republicans and Teabaggers and Libertarians love it. I will let Bruce Bartlett (Ronald Reagan's executive director of the Joint Economic Committee, and GHW Bush's senior policy analyst & deputy assistant secretary for economic policy at the Treasury Department) explain the details as to why it is so utterly stupid. I'm confident you won't read a word of it.

(Chris Christie was here.)

@Billy, [I wonder why, for the first time, he addressed me? Is it because I pointed out Gomer & I can’t see each other and he wanted to let Gomer know I was here? I don’t know, just a guess.] there are so many reasons why those previous plans are different than the one today [True. They are, however, about 90% identical. And the specific point that you brought up, the mandate, which you are now trying to dodge, is a Republican creation. Although, unknown to most, the Democrats put in a clause that removes any power from the IRS to enforce the tax penalty for failing to comply with said mandate. Real Clear Politics: O'Donnell: Obamacare's "Dirty Little Secret" Is The Individual Mandate Is Unenforceable ] but I have no desire to rebut your points. [Right. It has nothing to do with the fact that facts don’t support your misinformed partisan beliefs.] Out of respect for my cousin Alan and my [deceased] cousin (yes I mentioned him because I know how close you guys were and I respect that - but don't say I don't have a right to mention him) [I never said anyone didn’t have a right to bring him up. I just don’t appreciate using him for some sympathetic fucking ploy as if respect for him is the only reason you’re being fucking forced to tolerate someone with a different goddamned opinion than you.] I will bow out of this conversation. Plus, I don't have the time to link a million websites and go on and on about a point till all hours of the night. I work full time (for the local government believe it or not), have a second job in the film industry, and have a great family that I would rather spend my valuable time with then waste it here. [It’s just amazing how much you and your life are better than me and mine.] I am happy to see that you are really passionate about your opinions [Other than my evidence-based opinion that Christy is guilty as fuck, I have given no opinions. I have presented verifiable facts.] and respect that as well. The only advice that I can offer is that not everything is a lie. [True. Not everything is a lie. Just everything you and your mom happen to keep saying.]

**  **

I let him have the final word. At least he feels like he accomplished something. That’s what an incredibly fucking awesome person I am.

You have to admire their tenacity. Every single time they were proven wrong, they just ignored it, changed the topic to another debunked right-wing lie and kept plugging along.

Updates on things that happened during the couple days this discussion took place:

~The Christie administration were handed federal subpoenas.

~Two more top Christie people, including his former Deputy Chief of Staff, Bridget Kelly (who wrote the email that started this incident, “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee.”) pleaded the Fifth Amendment against their subpoenas.

~David Wildstein, who previously pleaded the Fifth, had his lawyer send a letter to the Port Authority asking for them to pay for his fees, and included in that letter that he has proof Christie knew about the bridge closure during the four-day event and not long after, as Christie claims.

~The Christie administration put out a childish, high school-like attack letter with a list of insults about Wildstein. Christie previously praised this man, even inventing a position for Wildstein at the Port Authority that didn’t previously exist. Then, when Bridgegate first went down, claimed he hardly knew Wildstein. To be clear: Christie appreciated how good this guy was, then created a special job for him, then said he hardly knew him, then pointed out how bad this guy was. Are we to suppose Christie knew how bad Wildstein was and also wanted to hire him so badly that he invented a position for him? (Since his resignation, the Port Authority did away with the position.)

~After Wildstein’s letter claiming he has proof of Christie's bridge closure knowledge, Christie went on NJ Radio 101.5 and changed his story.

~After much scorn by the media for the Christie administration putting out such an amateurish child-like attack letter against Wildstein, the Christie administration said Chris Cristie himself knew nothing about the childish letter. (This Christie guy seems to be an incredibly inept leader, ay?)

~Christie’s new story contradicts his old story

~The feds have been concentrating on the Christie administration’s misappropriation of federal Sandy funds.

This discussion WAS about Christie, after all. Right?

From the Apropos Department:

I could use this right about now.

1 comment:

  1. Some more information regarding poor people and cell phones. Wish I found this during the debate. Not that it wouldn't have been duly ignored...